Overclocking help

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melancholy
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Overclocking help

Post by melancholy »

I have never, ever overclocked a processor. However, I just got a dual core processor a few months back and the speed of it is just not as fast as my old processor, and it shows with programs that do not utilize both cores. If the program uses both cores, it flies, but if it only uses one, it just doesn't have the power of my old processor.

I don't want to overclock it much at all. The highest I would want to go would be from the 1.8ghz it's running now to the 2.2ghz that my old processor ran at. I have a high-end Zalman fan stuck on it, so temperatures shouldn't be a problem. However, as to how to actually do it, I'm clueless. I know my motherboard supports overclocking, as it has the options to do it in the BIOS, but I don't know what to set stuff to. I tried finding a guide or two, but they seem to speak a foreign language. I guess I'm just looking for a quick solution to get some speed, which may or may not be feasible, but like I said, I'm clueless here.
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Post by Wagh »

What is the exact model of your motherboard.
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Post by melancholy »

Hmm...I'm sure Newegg has it on my order history...


...yeah, here it is:

EVGA 133-K8-NF41 Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 SLI ATX AMD Motherboard
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Post by Calavera »

Most of the time overclocking is done by simply changing the Front Side Bus and or the multiplier. You may want to wait until somebody gives you a more detailed answer before you just go and change the setting though. :wink:
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Post by BlackAura »

On an Athlon 64 system, you have several settings to play around with.

First, you have the base clock (HTT clock, occasionally called FSB even though it's technically incorrect). This is the master clock generator that controls the speed of all the components in the system, including the final CPU clock speed, the RAM clock speed, and that of the peripherals.

Second, you have the CPU multiplier. You multiply the FSB speed by the clock multiplier to get the CPU's clock speed. For example (pulling numbers out of nowhere), a 200MHz FSB with a multiplier of 9 gives a 1800MHz CPU clock speed.

The Athlon 64s have two busses to connect the CPU to the rest of the system - a memory bus to connect it to the RAM, and a HyperTransport bus to connect it to the peripherals.

Third setting is the memory divider. This is basically the ratio between the CPU clock and the RAM clock. If your CPU clock is 1800MHz, and you're using DDR400 RAM (at 200MHz), the RAM divider will be 9.

Fourth, you have the HyperTransport multiplier. This determines the speed of the link between the CPU and peripherals, and is a multiple of the base clock. HyperTransport operates at a frequency of 1GHz (I think - might be different in newer models), so the multiplier from a 200MHz base clock will be 5.

The objective of overclocking the CPU is to increase the CPU's clock speed while keeping the rest of the parts running close to stock speed. The obvious way to do that is by increasing the CPU multiplier. However, the multiplier is usually locked, except on FX or Opteron CPUs. That leaves you with the base clock.

If you increase the base clock, you will also increase the RAM bus and HyperTransport bus speeds. This is no good - either the RAM or the peripherals will start to malfunction long before you get close to the limit of the CPU.

So, you have to increase the base clock a little bit, and then calculate a new memory divider and HyperTransport multiplier to keep those parts running at the same clock speed, or close to it (preferably slightly below).

The general technique is to drop the memory divider and HT multiplier, then gradually increase the base speed until the memory and HT reach their stock speed. Then, drop them again, and keep increasing the base clock. You can either overclock as much as possible, then decrease the overclock until you get a stable system, or you can overclock gradually until it starts becoming unstable, then go back a bit.

Either way, you need to test the CPU carefully, by running a stress test program on it. These usually try to catch any errors that might be creeping in, in addition to running the CPU at full load for a long period of time, producing lots of heat. So it'd be a good idea to have some software that'll monitor the CPU temperature running as well.

High-end motherboards sometimes use separate clock generators for the RAM and HT bus, so in those cases you only need to increase the base clock.

One other additional complication is that the CPU might start requiring more voltage at higher clock speed. Voltage should only be increased (if your motherboard allows it) when the CPU starts malfunctioning. You can potentially get higher clock speed this way. Running over stock voltage is a bad idea if you can't afford to lose the CPU - it'll probably shorten it's life expectancy significantly, and can outright kill the CPU if you run it too far over stock voltage.

Once you've overclocked the CPU, you can try overclocking the RAM and HT bus by changing the RAM divider and HT multiplier settings. You should only overclock the RAM if it's high-quality stuff (and run a memory test of it afterwards), and I wouldn't recommend overclocking the HT bus at all unless you have a good reason.

Doing this, you lose the CPU's Cool 'n' Quiet functionality - the CPU will be running full speed all the time, instead of dropping to lower clock speeds when idle. This may or may not be a big deal - the system will require more power, produce more heat, and may be a bit louder.

I've only ever overclocked a Socket 939 CPU (Athlon 64 3000+, Winchester core, from 1800MHz to somewhere between 2200MHz and 2400MHz). Most of that should still be true of Socket AM2 CPUs.

This has been a brief (!) guide to overclocking an Athlon 64. There's plenty of information out there, although most of it is pretty confusing until you understand the basics. This article is a pretty good overview of how to overclock an Athlon 64.
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Post by melancholy »

Okay, I didn't follow that at all, but the article you linked to helped quite a bit. I now have my processor clocked at 240mhz, and was able to separately clock my RAM to the one lower to it. Though you said you pulled number from nowhere, those numbers just happen to be the numbers I'm working with (200mhz with a 9x multiplier and DDR400 RAM). So processor is set to 240, the multiplier is the same, and the RAM is now at DDR333, making it run at it's stock 200. Booted to Windows, and boy did it boot faster than ever!

However, the thing I'm stuck on is the HyperTransport. What should I have it set on? My motherboard allows for 200, 400, 600, 800, and 1ghz (and of course an 'auto' setting). Right now I just have it set onto 'auto' and everything seems fine, but I haven't done any tests, and I'm sure that I probably should set it to something else. But from both your post and the article, I still couldn't make sense of it.

Oh, and I found out I must have the crappiest RAM available or something. I set it to any mhz setting outside of the stock 200, and Windows won't boot period. I had it a measly 205 and it was an instant crash. Guess any other overclocking is out of the question, not that I intended to anyway.
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Post by BlackAura »

If the motherboard has a separate HyperTransport bus speed (and it sounds like it does), then leaving it at the default would probably be OK.
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Post by melancholy »

BlackAura wrote:If the motherboard has a separate HyperTransport bus speed (and it sounds like it does), then leaving it at the default would probably be OK.
It's in a different screen entirely. Plus, whenever I change the CPU speed, the RAM is auto-calculated in the BIOS to what it would be running at if I left the settings as-is. The HT, however, never changes.

Oh, and one other thing. You said that the multiplier is unlocked on FX and Opteron chips. However, I am running an Opteron, and the multiplier is locked, unfortunately. Just thought you'd like to know.

Thanks BA.
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Post by Disheveled DrFreeze »

melancholy wrote: However, the thing I'm stuck on is the HyperTransport. What should I have it set on? My motherboard allows for 200, 400, 600, 800, and 1ghz (and of course an 'auto' setting). Right now I just have it set onto 'auto' and everything seems fine, but I haven't done any tests, and I'm sure that I probably should set it to something else. But from both your post and the article, I still couldn't make sense of it.
set it to 800

hypertransport is the link between the CPU and the mobo chipset. on amd64 systems this usually runs at 1 GHz, but since this HT speed is derived from the HTT speed (the one you set to 240 instead of 200), overclocking your cpu also Oces the HT bus, now in order to drop it back down below 1 GHz (recommended to avoid stability problems) i would recommend dropping the setting to 800 (which will drop the multiplier to 4x instead of 5x, dropping your actual HT speed from 1.2 to 960 mhz)

keep in mind, HT speed does not have a huge impact on system performance, so you will not notice any drop in performance going from 5x to 4x HT multi, while avoiding possible problems

and congrats on finding an opty 165 ;)
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Post by melancholy »

Disheveled DrFreeze wrote:hypertransport is the link between the CPU and the mobo chipset. on amd64 systems this usually runs at 1 GHz, but since this HT speed is derived from the HTT speed (the one you set to 240 instead of 200), overclocking your cpu also Oces the HT bus, now in order to drop it back down below 1 GHz (recommended to avoid stability problems) i would recommend dropping the setting to 800 (which will drop the multiplier to 4x instead of 5x, dropping your actual HT speed from 1.2 to 960 mhz)
Well, I've left it alone for days now with no adverse side effects. However, I don't want to screw anything up in my system, so I'll just take your advice.
Disheveled DrFreeze wrote:and congrats on finding an opty 165 ;)
I would ask how you knew that, but I have a guess; the only Opteron that has a locked multiplier, am I right?
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Post by Disheveled DrFreeze »

nah, only desktop 1.8 GHz dual core amd cpu, the only multi unlocked cpus are the Fx line

the normal X2s start at 2.0 on socket 939 (3800) or 1.9 on AM2 (x2 3600 brisbane)

the only other dual core amd cpu running 1.8 is the turion X2 tl-56 in my lappy

i never owned an opty myself, but i did read one heck of a lot on them, i ended up with a x2 3800 because 165's were just to scarce and expensive when i got it, hell, for every cpu on s754 and 939 i know the exact specs :D i just havent been keeping up so i might not now the details on am2 cpus
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Post by melancholy »

Actually, the 165 was the cheapest Dual Core 939 processor I could find. I desperately wanted a Dual Core processor for my desktop and a new processor for my laptop, so I bought it, and then put the old processor from my PC into my laptop.
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Post by Disheveled DrFreeze »

hmm, you have a s939 laptop? never seen those

and keep in mind, i got my x2 about a year back, the thing cost me 300 bucks, a 165 was about 350 back then :(
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Post by melancholy »

Disheveled DrFreeze wrote:hmm, you have a s939 laptop? never seen those
Apparently, HP only made one model of laptop that used 939, and I just happened to purchase that particular model. A happy accident, for sure.
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