Vegitarians

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Post by DaMadFiddler » Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:20 am

Christuserloeser wrote:* (which, just btw, is impossible as cats, unlike humans, actually are carnivores: they'll die!)
Interesting fact there: The cat family is actually the most specialized carnivore of all mammals. It is the only carnivore which has specified itself so particularly to eating meat that its body no longer even produces the chemicals to digest plant matter properly. If you try to feed a cat a vegetarian diet, it will gradually go blind and die.

"No, see? We taught a lion to eat tofu!"
After all eating meat is not the same as eating human flesh ^^ (we may now laugh about it, but I've met some people... you wouldn't believe it... Laughing )
Actually, two of the people who would fall into that category are Benjamin Franklin and Leonardo Da Vinci. Franklin referred to eating meat as "unprovoked murder," and Da Vinci said: "The time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder of animals as they now look on the murder of men."
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Post by perry » Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:35 am

Christuserloeser wrote:You do the impossible then :o 'See the living caveman how he uses fire to cook & digest meat!' - Just joking, I know for a fact that there actually are humans that live(d) entirely on a meat diet - or fish in this case: Inuit. But that's about it, I don't think it's exactly healty. But I am a smoker so health isn't what I am after ^^
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Post by Christuserloeser » Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:43 am

DaMadFiddler wrote:The cat family is actually the most specialized carnivore of all mammals. It is the only carnivore which has specified itself so particularly to eating meat that its body no longer even produces the chemicals to digest plant matter properly.
I'd say that it's perhaps the only real mammal carnivore and hunter. While most other mammal 'carnivores' are more or less able to eat everything (like dogs).
"No, see? We taught a lion to eat tofu!"
:lol:

perry wrote:Should I get my club and follow you ?
Of course - for I am the almighty cornholio and I need tivi for my bunghole!
Last edited by Christuserloeser on Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Wagh » Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:44 am

make sure you take your supplements.
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Post by greay » Wed Jan 17, 2007 2:39 pm

Veggita2099 wrote:I know this means nothing as over half this forum (probably most of it) is atheist. But the Bible makes it clear that there is nothing wrong with eating meat. Even health wise if you watch your diet you will find meat to be not only acceptable, but also healthy. Turkey is generally pretty healthy and is certain parts of the chicken (breast meat is good for you).
Actually, in the Bible, God initially only gave Man the plants of the earth to eat.
Genesis 1:28-29 wrote: 28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."
29 Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food.
It isn't until Genesis 9 that God is finally so fed up with Mankind that he says, okay, you guys can eat meat.
Genesis 9:3 wrote: Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything.
Wagh wrote:make sure you take your supplements.
I've been a vegetarian for something like 10 years running and I don't take regular vitamins. Much like with a meat-eating diet, it's only really necessary to supplement your diet if you don't eat well. I say "regular" vitamins because I don't actually buy vitamins. I have a fondness for those "healthy" drinks like Sobe and Vitamin Water, and the occasional Met-Rx bar. But I don't get anything from those that I don't get otherwise. The only vitamin I pay attention to is B12, but it's a misconception that you can't get that in a vegetarian diet. It's just a little bit harder.
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Post by Hawq » Wed Jan 17, 2007 3:01 pm

perry wrote:Like a caveman, I just eat meat.
And the biggest potential out of context quote of the thread award goes to... :lol: on topic vegetarians are odd people but at least the thread starter aint turning vegan on us, theres no helping those people
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Post by Veggita2099 » Wed Jan 17, 2007 3:04 pm

I am curious do vegetarian eat things that are produced by animals such as cheese for instance? If so I can recommend Boca burgers to you. They use Milk and cheese in them but the rest is vegetarian stuff. They taste pretty good and are actually healthy for you. I have been buying them because they go well with my diet (been doing weight watchers since November).
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Post by Christuserloeser » Wed Jan 17, 2007 3:14 pm

Veggita2099 wrote:I am curious do vegetarian eat things that are produced by animals such as cheese for instance?
Vegetarian's do, Vegan don't:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarian

I do eat cheese and drink milk and I like honey, but otherwise I live pretty vegan. Sadly I doubt I can find Boca burgers here in Europe :(
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Post by Lartrak » Wed Jan 17, 2007 5:27 pm

Da Vinci said: "The time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder of animals as they now look on the murder of men."
Considering the time frame he lived in and the attitudes of many people of the time in Europe, that isn't saying much.
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Post by chrisfbt1 » Thu Jan 18, 2007 7:10 am

DaMadFiddler wrote:Your best friend, *regardless* of diet, is http://www.AllRecipes.com

That said: as counterintuitive as this may sound, the transition is much easier cold-turkey than a slow easing-out process. Just drop it all, at once, at the same time. For the first month or so, you'll try to eat mostly the same way. Getting pizzas just with different toppings, making the same dishes and just leaving the meat out (which works well for most pasta dishes), getting a soyburger or some veggie bacon/sausage/what-have-you when the craving hits.

That won't last. You can't eat exactly the same way, just without the meat...it will feel like a limitation, and you'll get bored with your diet. What you need to do is use it as an opportunity to *expand* your tastes rather than limiting them. Take the opportunity to try things you might not have bothered with before...try new kinds of soups, new ethnic foods (Indian food is very good, very cheap, and largely meatless), and playing with new recipes at home.

It's still a little tough when you visit family for holidays or whatever, because you want to adhere to your diet but you don't want to be an imposition. To help avoid this...once you've found a few recipes you like, offer to help cook meals when you're in this situation. They'll appreciate the help, and you can make sure there's at least a dish or two you can eat.

It's not that hard, but it is an adjustment. The easiest way to MAKE it hard is to try to act like everything's going to be the same. If you need any recipes, product recommendations, or substitution guides, I'd be happy to post some.
that pretty much covers what i was going to say. I've been a vegetarian for 13 years now and its not hard
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Post by DaMadFiddler » Thu Jan 18, 2007 7:19 am

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Post by Roofus » Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:49 pm

DaMadFiddler wrote:Da Vinci said: "The time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder of animals as they now look on the murder of men."
Da Vinci was a brilliant man, but that's stupid. Equating the human race to chickens is quite frankly, insulting.
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Post by not just souLLy now » Thu Jan 18, 2007 6:43 pm

Roofus wrote:
DaMadFiddler wrote:Da Vinci said: "The time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder of animals as they now look on the murder of men."
Da Vinci was a brilliant man, but that's stupid. Equating the human race to chickens is quite frankly, insulting.
Except that's obviously not what he's saying
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Post by Christuserloeser » Thu Jan 18, 2007 7:09 pm

Roofus wrote:Equating the human race to chickens is quite frankly, insulting.
Yeah, however that's not really the problem I mentioned earlier with those people I've met... They more or less showed no (as in none, non-existant) empathy for humans but just a few seconds later asked you to sign petitions to stop medical tests on animals. Those are really scary.

My former girlfriend also once bought a book about vegetarian lifestyle (seemed pretty 'underground' to me at that time). About two or three years later, when some guy I've met showed me a book he was reading, I discovered that this same author also was the owner of one of the leading neo-facist print publishers in my area. He made books like "Illuminati - How the Jews rule the world" and other scary stuff.

(I quoted the content from my mind, that's not an actual title - those had much more intelligent names. Also you can replace 'Jews' with 'USA' and you got another book from that same publisher).
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Post by Sir Slash » Thu Jan 18, 2007 8:02 pm

i'm agreeing with his easing out process, nothing more
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Post by Lartrak » Fri Jan 19, 2007 12:49 am

not just souLLy now wrote:
Roofus wrote:
DaMadFiddler wrote:Da Vinci said: "The time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder of animals as they now look on the murder of men."
Da Vinci was a brilliant man, but that's stupid. Equating the human race to chickens is quite frankly, insulting.
Except that's obviously not what he's saying
More importantly...

http://www.ivu.org/history/davinci/hurwitz.html
Unfortunately, there is a quote attributed to da Vinci that has been in several books and magazine articles as well as on vegetarian web sites which has been falsely attributed. It is as follows: "I have from an early age abjured the use of meat, and the time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder of animals as they now look upon the murder of men." The original source of the error was from a generally excellent anthology of writings from a number of historical and contemporary writers, philosophers, scientists, and other prominent individuals entitled, The Extended Circle: A Commonplace book of Animal Rights (1985), by Jon Wynne-Tyson. The quote above was from a fiction novel (which did put into da Vinci’s mouth some actual quotes) by Dimitri Merejkowski entitled, The Romance of Leonardo da Vinci ( translated from the Russian in 1928). The attributions for the quote above and an actual da Vinci quote were inadvertently swapped in the book.
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Post by Hawke » Fri Jan 19, 2007 4:03 am

So you won't eat meat, but you have no trouble eating an EAR of corn, or EYE of potato or even a HEAD of lettuce?!
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Post by Ex-Cyber » Fri Jan 19, 2007 4:50 am

Hawke wrote:So you won't eat meat, but you have no trouble eating an EAR of corn, or EYE of potato or even a HEAD of lettuce?!
Actually, it's not even that uncommon to refer to the bulk of edible material in fruits as "meat".
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Post by perry » Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:39 am

Hawq wrote:
perry wrote:Like a caveman, I just eat meat.
And the biggest potential out of context quote of the thread award goes to... :lol: on topic vegetarians are odd people but at least the thread starter aint turning vegan on us, theres no helping those people
Looking back, I demand a bigger award. I belive that is contextual quote of the week at least :P

Are vegans those ones that don't believe in harming anything, like eating lettuce or making paper or walking on grass incase they crush a worm 20 foot below ?
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Post by DaMadFiddler » Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:37 am

Lartrak wrote:More importantly...

http://www.ivu.org/history/davinci/hurwitz.html
Unfortunately, there is a quote attributed to da Vinci that has been in several books and magazine articles as well as on vegetarian web sites which has been falsely attributed. It is as follows: "I have from an early age abjured the use of meat, and the time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder of animals as they now look upon the murder of men." The original source of the error was from a generally excellent anthology of writings from a number of historical and contemporary writers, philosophers, scientists, and other prominent individuals entitled, The Extended Circle: A Commonplace book of Animal Rights (1985), by Jon Wynne-Tyson. The quote above was from a fiction novel (which did put into da Vinci’s mouth some actual quotes) by Dimitri Merejkowski entitled, The Romance of Leonardo da Vinci ( translated from the Russian in 1928). The attributions for the quote above and an actual da Vinci quote were inadvertently swapped in the book.
Interesting.

It's sad how things like that can disseminate so thoroughly; I've seen this "quote" referenced in at least three different books.
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