Ban the 'offensive' nativity scene

[Roofus]

I am the type that does not like to be told what to beleive. I'm not a Christian because others tell me to be, it's because I want to be.

You tell me, which is more weak and small, the one who follows the only religion that the media attacks, or the one who follows what the media portrays as the mainstream?

First, I'm not sure what you mean when you say the media portrays athiesm as mainstream. I think you mean that they don't like to make moral judgmements. I'd contend that it's not the media's job to do that. their job is to just report the news. If I'm wrong, please correct me. Just for the record, athiesm != amorality.

Second, what makes you think that "the media" told me to be an athiest? If you're a Christian because you want to be, can't I be an athiest because I want to be?

[BlackAura]

If you're a Christian because you want to be, can't I be an athiest because I want to be?

Of course not. Like all atheists/liberals/whatever-i-don't-like-ists, you're only a sheep following the left wing anti-Christian media.

I know that Jews, as a whole, tend to have a massive persecution complex even when they haven't been persecuted for years, but I wasn't aware that Christians had developed the same thing. They certainly have no reason to do so, considering that they seem to be the ones (in general) doing all the persecuting.

[Lartrak]

I'm not a Christian because others tell me to be, it's because I want to be.

How did you come by Christianity?

You tell me, which is more weak and small, the one who follows the only religion that the media attacks, or the one who follows what the media portrays as the mainstream?

Atheists represent about 1 out of 20 people in the USA. Christians are about 15 out of every 20 people in the USA. Even if what you were saying is true (and I see no reason to believe the media portrays atheism as mainstream), who is getting more support? Can you name any major American political leader in the past 100 years who was a public atheist?

I'm not sure I see where this argument started. Hmm...

[hearld500]

I don't care if you're an athiest, I don't beleive it's the best choice, but I don't say you can't be. But when you try to ban a nativity scene, it's the same as saying ban Christianity.

[impetus]

Christians are about 15 out of every 20 people in the USA.

[hearld500]

First, I'm not sure what you mean when you say the media portrays athiesm as mainstream. I think you mean that they don't like to make moral judgmements. I'd contend that it's not the media's job to do that. their job is to just report the news. If I'm wrong, please correct me. Just for the record, athiesm != amorality.

Second, what makes you think that "the media" told me to be an athiest? If you're a Christian because you want to be, can't I be an athiest because I want to be?

No, I ment the media as a whole just portrays Christianity as a hateful religion. The have comics on the late night shows that just make fun of God. Or how bout the dancing Jesus on show. (simpsons and comedy central)
I'm not referring as the media as just the news, but also all the shows they air.

Again, I don't care if you're an athiest, I don't beleive it's the best choice, but I don't say you can't be. But when you try to ban a nativity scene, it's the same as saying ban Christianity.

[Jeeba Jabba]

No, I ment the media as a whole just portrays Christianity as a hateful religion. The have comics on the late night shows that just make fun of God. Or how bout the dancing Jesus on show. (simpsons and comedy central)
I'm not referring as the media as just the news, but also all the shows they air.

So? Why shouldn't we make fun of it? He's an imaginary bastard.

Athiests love life, while Christian zealots like yourself condemn it to servitude, slavery, and war. Stop holding back the human race and allow us to break free of your make-believe system of half-truthes bent on keeping the masses in control.

People like you see only two options to solving everything: more guns and more Jesus; preferably both. You see the world as a playing field to conquer, but we aren't your pawns anymore. We believe in love.

Jesus is a fairy tale that you donate your money to.

[impetus]

???

[Master Higgins]

No, I ment the media as a whole just portrays Christianity as a hateful religion. The have comics on the late night shows that just make fun of God. Or how bout the dancing Jesus on show. (simpsons and comedy central)
I'm not referring as the media as just the news, but also all the shows they air

I think both religious and non-religious have something in common in that they both always think they are being scapoe goated cuz there is representation from both sides debasing the other. If you believe that the Simpson's portraying a dancing Jesus is hatefull just remember that Rush Limbaugh used to be on TV, the 700 club is on TV. The problem that I find is two things, it's more difficult to debunk atheism as there is nothing to debunk you can't show the absurdity of not beliving in God because that is actually trying to prove there is one, so the lack of anti atheist comedians in the mainstream is that they're is nothing clever to it. Also political correctness does not allow people to bad mouth a particular race or religion except for what is dominant being protestant christianity and white people, I disagree with that, but if you notice there are ways around this, like talking about "welfare cheats" and "radical islamists." In particular I find the media to be on two polar ends, extremely liberal or radically right depending on what station or show you're watching.

I don't care if you're an athiest, I don't beleive it's the best choice, but I don't say you can't be. But when you try to ban a nativity scene, it's the same as saying ban Christianity.

well said. Personally i think it is ludicrous to ban religious expression, if it is tasteful and the plurality of people want it. In a muslim community in the USA they should be allowed to display ramadan if their community finds it acceptable, same with chrisitanity or judaism. What I do find strange is that regardless of the region "happy chanukah" is pretty commoin for a group that represents .7 of the population and very little complaint is made about that but then with nativity many people have complained over a group that represents most of the country expressing itself.

[Roofus]

No, I ment the media as a whole just portrays Christianity as a hateful religion. The have comics on the late night shows that just make fun of God. Or how bout the dancing Jesus on show. (simpsons and comedy central)
I'm not referring as the media as just the news, but also all the shows they air.

Yeah, I see where you're coming from there. Certainly South Park is one of the worst offenders there. I personally don't consider Christianity a hateful religion, but look at the kind of the guys you've got on your side.

Again, I don't care if you're an athiest, I don't beleive it's the best choice, but I don't say you can't be. But when you try to ban a nativity scene, it's the same as saying ban Christianity.

Yeah, I don't think people are particularly worried about the nativity scene specifically. I think the problem is people are worried where it could lead (either Christians being burned, or Christians burning others) I'm fairly comfortable that neither will happen

[hearld500]

Stop holding back the human race and allow us to break free of your make-believe system of half-truthes bent on keeping the masses in control.

It honestly scares me that there are people like you out there.

People like you see only two options to solving everything: more guns and more Jesus; preferably both. You see the world as a playing field to conquer, but we aren't your pawns anymore. We believe in love.

Jesus is a fairy tale that you donate your money to.

What are you talking about? More guns and more Jesus? WTF?
I playing feild to conquer? Sound more like you trying to rid the world of Christianity and no other religion.

And we all know, nativity scenes are a secret plot to conquer the world.

[Master Higgins]

Hearld the main issues that discredit christianity is that it isn't an exclusive club, if you notice pretty much anyone with a hateful agenda can be chrisitan there is no governing authority of protestant christianity that can excommunicate, banish or censure members of the church like there is in the catholic church.Which you may have notcied despite the scandal is the most respected church of any. With non-catholic/orthodox christianity you basically have many unregulated, puritan, hatefuls all espousing themselves as the "true" christians and many of them are taken seriously by the however many protestants in America while Catholics, non-believers, Orthodox and atheists find them to be entirely ludicrous and are thus intolerant of their beliefs If protestant christianity wants to be respected by those who don't believe they need to start being respectable.

You'll notice in Catholic countries they don't ahve the same mockery of the church simply because their church is a lot less mockable.

[Lartrak]

Christians are about 15 out of every 20 people in the USA.

Did I miss something?

http://www.adherents.com/rel_USA.html#religions
http://www.gc.cuny.edu/studies/key_findings.htm

20 was the minimum number of people I would have to mention to get a non-fractional atheist. I kept it to 20 for ease of comparison when mentioning Christians.

It honestly scares me that there are people like you out there.

Why? How is his viewpoint hurting anyone?

But when you try to ban a nativity scene, it's the same as saying ban Christianity.

I don't know enough about what Britain is doing on this to comment. It sounds to me like you think the idea of removing a nativity is wrong under any circumstances, which I don't agree with. I don't think they should have nativities on government property... I think government should be secular as much as possible. But at the same time, I doubt I would complain to anyone if they started doing it around here, provided tax dollars weren't spent on the nativity or its upkeep.

[arrowhead]

Everyone in this thread is mostly being intollerant and retarded. Atheists, believe what you want, Christians, believe what you want. I will believe what I want.

Fact is, atheism has become just as much a religion as christianity. Atheists are freaks about making people see what they believe, that there is "no God". It is exactly the same as Christians trying to force people who dont believe that there "is a God". In the past atheists just went about their business and let the chritians live "their lies". Now everyone is trying to convert everyone else and it is a joke. Let the christians have their nativities and let the atheists have their george carlin. What is it hurting an atheist to see a nativity? Isnt that the same as seeing a santa clause figure? Both are figments of the imagination according to an atheist right? So why not ban all santa displays? Or anything else for that matter. If we let all this crybaby bullshyte between religions continue the world is going to deteriorate into unlivible craphole.

Christians, stay out of peoples business and let them believe what they want. Same goes for atheists IMO. If you mind your own damn business and not worry about others the world would be a better place.

[Zealous zerotype]

It is times liek this that make me glad to be a Zoomist.
(ever see andy richter :-p)

[|darc|]

I am the type that does not like to be told what to beleive. I'm not a Christian because others tell me to be, it's because I want to be.

Ah, I see. So, you were just sitting there one day, and you began to wonder, "Where did we come from, anyway?" You took a trip to your local library, and you read the Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Koran, the Mahabharata, and other such religious works (as well as, of course, the great (and real) Illiad and Odyssey). You stood up all night pondering, and then it came to you. You believed in the Christian "God." It made the most sense to you, and you agreed with it the most. You became a Christian.

Either that, or, realisitically, its been shoved down your throat since you were born. You believe not because you honestly believe or because everyone's been telling you to, you believe because its been force-fed into you so much, the belief in it is right next to basic instincts.

So? Why shouldn't we make fun of it? He's an imaginary fancy pants.

Athiests love life, while Christian zealots like yourself condemn it to servitude, slavery, and war. Stop holding back the human race and allow us to break free of your make-believe system of half-truthes bent on keeping the masses in control.

People like you see only two options to solving everything: more guns and more Jesus; preferably both. You see the world as a playing field to conquer, but we aren't your pawns anymore. We believe in love.

Jesus is a fairy tale that you donate your money to.

Speak it louder, brother. Errr... cousin.

Fact is, atheism has become just as much a religion as christianity. Atheists are freaks about making people see what they believe, that there is "no God". It is exactly the same as Christians trying to force people who dont believe that there "is a God". In the past atheists just went about their business and let the chritians live "their lies". Now everyone is trying to convert everyone else and it is a joke. Let the christians have their nativities and let the atheists have their george carlin. What is it hurting an atheist to see a nativity? Isnt that the same as seeing a santa clause figure? Both are figments of the imagination according to an atheist right? So why not ban all santa displays? Or anything else for that matter. If we let all this crybaby bullshyte between religions continue the world is going to deteriorate into unlivible craphole.

Here we go with the "things used to be so much better" line. The truth is, no, they weren't. Only until recently have athiests been able to express their views without recieving a huge backlash or, most likely, complete censorship. Only until around now are seperation of church and state type laws being heavily defended. If we tried to add "under god" to the pledge now, it would never pass. Its like saying the only good Jew is the quiet Jew hiding in the attic of Nazi Germany. Of course this is wrong. Everyone should be able to be open with their views and be respected at the same time.

I love how every time Christians are criticized they are quick to defense yet ready to attack me every time I go say a word to praise Poseidon.

[arrowhead]

Did I attack you? Nope. If you want to believe in the gods of the greeks and romans, be my guest. Fact is the "Christian God" was once a god of the greek and Roman era. After Cannan was razed either by the Isrealites, or other ancient tribes, refugees from the city of Cannan moved into the mountains around the city of Cannan, presumably Philistines. The traveling priests from these mountanous tribes worshiped the god "jehova". Like most ancient gods jehova was a god of something, like your posiedon, or any other god. Thing is that the priests considered jehova to be the god of gods. Jehova was used by the mountanous tribes to form a coalition under "the god of gods" and under the words of jehova. Archeoligists found the name "jehova" used for the first time on a silver scroll found in Jeruselem dated to the 6th or 7th century BC. Bible history and Archeology joined each other in the city of Samaria, the northern capitol city of the kingdom of Isreal. In 586 BC Jeruselem fell to the Babylonians and the Isealis and the mountanous tribes were led to babylon. The babylonians would not allow these people to worship the god jehova in babylon so they took ancient hymn books and religious writings that would become the history of the Israelis and the god jehova. As you must know, the Jews and Christians worship the same God, or in the old testament "jehova", so the Christian god is in fact a god of your ancient religion. You just chose not to worship him because you think of him as a God of the Christians who are "wrong".

[Lartrak]

Despite the number of sentences in there, you provided no evidence that Jehova is a member of the Greek/Roman pantheon.

[Covar]

Hearld the main issues that discredit christianity is that it isn't an exclusive club, if you notice pretty much anyone with a hateful agenda can be chrisitan there is no governing authority of protestant christianity that can excommunicate, banish or censure members of the church like there is in the catholic church.Which you may have notcied despite the scandal is the most respected church of any. With non-catholic/orthodox christianity you basically have many unregulated, puritan, hatefuls all espousing themselves as the "true" christians and many of them are taken seriously by the however many protestants in America while Catholics, non-believers, Orthodox and atheists find them to be entirely ludicrous and are thus intolerant of their beliefs If protestant christianity wants to be respected by those who don't believe they need to start being respectable.

You'll notice in Catholic countries they don't ahve the same mockery of the church simply because their church is a lot less mockable.

Master Higgens: we Catholics are christains too! The term christain means anyone worshipping the (for the sake of a reference point)Jewish God, who also believes that Jesus Christ was the son of god who was promised in the scirptures.

here's an idea claim atheism as a religion, so everything gets band and the government favors nobody.

[|darc|]

Did I attack you? Nope. If you want to believe in the gods of the greeks and romans, be my guest. Fact is the "Christian God" was once a god of the greek and Roman era. After Cannan was razed either by the Isrealites, or other ancient tribes, refugees from the city of Cannan moved into the mountains around the city of Cannan, presumably Philistines. The traveling priests from these mountanous tribes worshiped the god "jehova". Like most ancient gods jehova was a god of something, like your posiedon, or any other god. Thing is that the priests considered jehova to be the god of gods. Jehova was used by the mountanous tribes to form a coalition under "the god of gods" and under the words of jehova. Archeoligists found the name "jehova" used for the first time on a silver scroll found in Jeruselem dated to the 6th or 7th century BC. Bible history and Archeology joined each other in the city of Samaria, the northern capitol city of the kingdom of Isreal. In 586 BC Jeruselem fell to the Babylonians and the Isealis and the mountanous tribes were led to babylon. The babylonians would not allow these people to worship the god jehova in babylon so they took ancient hymn books and religious writings that would become the history of the Israelis and the god jehova. As you must know, the Jews and Christians worship the same God, or in the old testament "jehova", so the Christian god is in fact a god of your ancient religion. You just chose not to worship him because you think of him as a God of the Christians who are "wrong".

For one, as Lartrak already pointed out, you have provided no proof that Jehova has anything to do with my beliefs. If Jehova has anything to do with the pantheon, it is only connected by a small group's belief, not mine. The way the gods were created and the Christian creation myth have extreme conflicts. Even if you could prove that Jehova was one of the gods, none of the beliefs that go with Jehova fall into my religion.