Help me buy a motherboard and processor

Talk about anything and everything not related to this site or the Dreamcast, such as news stories, political discussion, or anything else. If there's not a forum for it, it belongs in here. Also, be warned that personal insults, threats, and spamming will not be tolerated.
User avatar
az_bont
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 13567
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2002 8:35 am
Location: Swansea, Wales
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0
Contact:

Help me buy a motherboard and processor

Post by az_bont » Mon Apr 12, 2004 2:45 pm

Due to complications in installing a hard drive into my old PC, I now need to buy a new processor, and possibly motherboard too. The old processor was a P4 2.5GHz, so I thought I'd be better off getting an new motherboard and Athlon XP processor instead.

Here's what's left of my old PC:
80GB 7200RPM HDD
512MB RAM, no more than 333MHz (possibly less)
64MB Radeon 7500 AGP
LAN adaptor


Plus a bunch of stuff I'm probably forgetting. I've got my mind set on a Barton, because I've heard some very good things about them. With that in mind, here's what I've found that seems to be the cheapest way of doing what I want:

Motherboard: A7V8X-MX SKT A VIA kM400 MATX VGA Sound Lan USB 2 Retail Box
Processor: AMD Athlon XP2800 333FSB 512kb L2 Cache Barton Retail Boxed Inc Heatsink & Fan with 3year Warranty

It's a Micro ATX case.

Are those two compatible with each other and the hardware listed above? Any problems to be faced with the choices I've made? And would you reccomend some extra cooling of some sort?
Sick of sub-par Dreamcast web browsers that fail to impress? Visit Psilocybin Dreams!
AmadeusZull
Soul Sold for DCEmu
Soul Sold for DCEmu
Posts: 4085
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2001 7:44 pm
Location: NYC
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0
Contact:

Post by AmadeusZull » Mon Apr 12, 2004 3:49 pm

don't buy 2800xp (and don't buy reatil, save some money and purchase a better hsf).

buy the mobile 2500xp chip. its unlocked and you can attain 2.4-2.6 ghz.

(my OC regular barton 2500xp which is now running as a xp3200 can only attain 2.2 ghz)

great mobo.
Image

I am no longer an ACE@ite. Never will I kiss his feet is what I don't. And that I don't, is good I do.
Matt
Soul Sold for DCEmu
Soul Sold for DCEmu
Posts: 4235
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2003 4:48 pm
Location: By my PC Hair:Bad
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0
Contact:

Post by Matt » Mon Apr 12, 2004 4:37 pm

User avatar
az_bont
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 13567
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2002 8:35 am
Location: Swansea, Wales
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0
Contact:

Post by az_bont » Mon Apr 12, 2004 4:56 pm

AmadeusZull wrote:don't buy 2800xp (and don't buy reatil, save some money and purchase a better hsf).
I was kind of hoping that the heatsink would already be partially attached. It was trying to seperate the heatsink that caused my last one to break :(.
AmadeusZull wrote:buy the mobile 2500xp chip. its unlocked and you can attain 2.4-2.6 ghz.

(my OC regular barton 2500xp which is now running as a xp3200 can only attain 2.2 ghz)
Isn't that for laptops? And on a review on eBuyer somebody claims that a Barton 2800+ XP is faster than a P4 3.06 - is that a load of cack, or is there some truth to that?

And you say that it can "obtain" 2.4-2.6GHz. Does this require overclocking?
AmadeusZull wrote:great mobo.
Well, at least I'm halfway there :).
You do realise that the two links above were both for eBuyer, right? :wink:
Sick of sub-par Dreamcast web browsers that fail to impress? Visit Psilocybin Dreams!
AmadeusZull
Soul Sold for DCEmu
Soul Sold for DCEmu
Posts: 4085
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2001 7:44 pm
Location: NYC
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0
Contact:

Post by AmadeusZull » Mon Apr 12, 2004 6:48 pm

yup it does. OC-ing is very simple. first you can up the fsb to 200mhz and with the multiplier at 11 thus giving u a 2.2ghz.

(2800 i believe hovers around 2 ghz)

that guy saying amd are faster is wrong. yes pentiums are faster but its all about the chip architecture and clock cycles. for gaming amd chips just own intel chips.

but when it comes to actual applications like ms word, photoshop, etc... the intel chips would win. but main reason for this is that intel purposely leak their chips specs to these companies so they can further teak performance.

but the differences you can't really feel.

price:performace ratio just over shines with amd chips.
Image

I am no longer an ACE@ite. Never will I kiss his feet is what I don't. And that I don't, is good I do.
User avatar
az_bont
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 13567
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2002 8:35 am
Location: Swansea, Wales
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0
Contact:

Post by az_bont » Mon Apr 12, 2004 7:06 pm

Hmm... What sort of additional cooling would be required if I'm to overclock? I plan on sticking in a so-far unused 80GB hard disc, so I'll have pretty much no extra space left over by the time that's all fitted :|.
Sick of sub-par Dreamcast web browsers that fail to impress? Visit Psilocybin Dreams!
Boshi
Insane DCEmu
Insane DCEmu
Posts: 117
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2002 12:01 pm
Location: Inflatable Moose
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0
Contact:

Post by Boshi » Mon Apr 12, 2004 7:12 pm

az_bont wrote:Hmm... What sort of additional cooling would be required if I'm to overclock? I plan on sticking in a so-far unused 80GB hard disc, so I'll have pretty much no extra space left over by the time that's all fitted :|.
you need to

1) buy your stuff from http://newegg.com
you wont be able to find better prices.

2) get an XP-M 2500+

3) get a thermalright SP-97 heatsink and a 92mm vantec tornado.
Alternatively you could build yourself a water-cooled system. It's not hard and you will get great results.

4) for the motherboard I would suggest nothing other than the Abit NF7-S v2.0. There is no better Socket A mobo.


Another thing you can do, is get an Athlon 64 instead of XP. Those are much faster than the Athlon XP. My Barton@2700MHz is still not as fast as my Athlon 64 3400+ running at stock speeds. ( 2.2GHz)

also, dont get ( or use if you already have it ) a microATX case. Please, they just suck compared to a real full size ATX case.


edit: one more thing, that ASUS mobo you linked to sucks big time.
Image
User avatar
az_bont
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 13567
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2002 8:35 am
Location: Swansea, Wales
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0
Contact:

Post by az_bont » Mon Apr 12, 2004 7:30 pm

Boshi wrote:1) buy your stuff from http://newegg.com
you wont be able to find better prices.
I'm a Brit ;).
Boshi wrote:2) get an XP-M 2500+
Well, that's the second reccomendation in this thread so far, although both responses are from overclocking freaks...
Boshi wrote:3) get a thermalright SP-97 heatsink and a 92mm vantec tornado.
Alternatively you could build yourself a water-cooled system. It's not hard and you will get great results.
eBuyer doesn't stock that, at least not under the same name.
Boshi wrote:4) for the motherboard I would suggest nothing other than the Abit NF7-S v2.0. There is no better Socket A mobo.
Sounds expensive. What advantages does it have over the one I posted?
Boshi wrote:Another thing you can do, is get an Athlon 64 instead of XP. Those are much faster than the Athlon XP. My Barton@2700MHz is still not as fast as my Athlon 64 3400+ running at stock speeds. ( 2.2GHz)
Too much money.
Boshi wrote:also, dont get ( or use if you already have it ) a microATX case. Please, they just suck compared to a real full size ATX case.
I don't really want to have to buy a case as well. Granted, they're cheap, but not as cheap as nothing, which is all I'll pay for the current one.
Boshi wrote:edit: one more thing, that ASUS mobo you linked to sucks big time.
What's wrong with it? Zull seemed quite keen on it.

I'm not really concerned with getting the ultimate PC. I don't play many PC games, and the ones I do play are all old. I'd like to get a good value processor for my money - I'm all for paying a little more to get a superior piece of kit, but I don't want to go crazy.

I could probably get a processor half the speed and would barely notice with the lack of CPU-intensive stuff I do. Video encoding is about the only thing, and most of that is done on another PC anyways :).
Sick of sub-par Dreamcast web browsers that fail to impress? Visit Psilocybin Dreams!
Boshi
Insane DCEmu
Insane DCEmu
Posts: 117
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2002 12:01 pm
Location: Inflatable Moose
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0
Contact:

Post by Boshi » Mon Apr 12, 2004 8:00 pm

1 ) too bad, that is no excuse for buying crap

2) CPUs that are good for overclocking are ususally also very cool and reliable at stock speeds.

3) buy it from somewhere else then ( you will find no knockoffs, it is too good )

4) It is not expensive. Should be around $100. It is based upon the much superior nForce2 Ultra chipset which is much better than the POS KT400 the Asus board has. It also has nVidia soundstorm. Soundstorm is an integrated sound card that is comparable to the Creative Audigy 2. It supports dual-channel DDR400, as opposed to the single channel DDR333 that the ASUS board supports.

5) fair enough, it is quite expensive.

6) dont go cheap on the case man. Go find an ATX case. You sacrifice too much with the smaller case.

Otherwise go out an buy a $600 compaq. It will outperform the peice of crap you were planning to build.
Image
User avatar
az_bont
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 13567
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2002 8:35 am
Location: Swansea, Wales
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0
Contact:

Post by az_bont » Mon Apr 12, 2004 8:14 pm

Boshi wrote:1 ) too bad, that is no excuse for buying crap
Charming :|.
Boshi wrote:2) CPUs that are good for overclocking are ususally also very cool and reliable at stock speeds.
Fair enough. The PC I am currently posting on goes to 74 degrees before restarting every time I use the CPU at 100% for more than a few minutes, so reliability is a factor here. That said, as long as it doesn't do that I don't mind.
Boshi wrote:3) buy it from somewhere else then ( you will find no knockoffs, it is too good )
Sounds complicated, expensive, and that it would require me to get a new case.
Boshi wrote:4) It is not expensive. Should be around $100. It is based upon the much superior nForce2 Ultra chipset which is much better than the POS KT400 the Asus board has. It also has nVidia soundstorm. Soundstorm is an integrated sound card that is comparable to the Creative Audigy 2. It supports dual-channel DDR400, as opposed to the single channel DDR333 that the ASUS board supports.
I listen to all my music on a set of $6 headphones that I got in Duty Free. And my RAM is no more than 333MHz anyway.
Boshi wrote:5) fair enough, it is quite expensive.
Quite.
Boshi wrote:6) dont go cheap on the case man. Go find an ATX case. You sacrifice too much with the smaller case.
What do I sacrafice?
Boshi wrote:Otherwise go out an buy a $600 compaq. It will outperform the peice of crap you were planning to build.
Several hundred dollars more than I was willing to spend.

I still don't know what's wrong with my choices. Relatively speedy processor, a decent quantity of RAM, a cute little graphics card that will at least run the five year old games I play...

What am I missing here? I'm all new to PC-building, so I'm fairly clueless.

I'm not too interested in creating a behemoth. But I've got a PC that's been MIA since Christmas that I'd like to get back up working with the minimal of fuss and spending.
Sick of sub-par Dreamcast web browsers that fail to impress? Visit Psilocybin Dreams!
sixteen-bit
Hardware Freak
Hardware Freak
Posts: 3246
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2001 3:45 pm
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Post by sixteen-bit » Mon Apr 12, 2004 8:18 pm

Radeon 7500?! Aren't they just rebranded ATI Rages?
Az, spend the ?10 - ?15 difference and get yourself a low-end Radeon 9200 or something. Please :P
User avatar
az_bont
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 13567
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2002 8:35 am
Location: Swansea, Wales
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0
Contact:

Post by az_bont » Mon Apr 12, 2004 8:22 pm

sixteen-bit wrote:Radeon 7500?! Aren't they just rebranded ATI Rages?
Az, spend the ?10 - ?15 difference and get yourself a low-end Radeon 9200 or something. Please :P
It's just what's left over from the last PC :P.

It can handle Final Fantasy VII (and IX) at 1152x768, and the TV out actually supports the PAL video system, so there'll be none of that black and white video action like with my integrated GeForce something-or-other. That's pretty much all I need.
Sick of sub-par Dreamcast web browsers that fail to impress? Visit Psilocybin Dreams!
Matt
Soul Sold for DCEmu
Soul Sold for DCEmu
Posts: 4235
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2003 4:48 pm
Location: By my PC Hair:Bad
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0
Contact:

Post by Matt » Mon Apr 12, 2004 8:28 pm

Ebuyer have quite a few heatsinks, if not try overclockers.co.uk.
I still don't know what's wrong with my choices. Relatively speedy processor, a decent quantity of RAM, a cute little graphics card that will at least run the five year old games I play...
Technology is changing, people are buying 2Ghz plus machines to run word processors and internet browsers :roll:
What am I missing here? I'm all new to PC-building, so I'm fairly clueless.
Everythings there, but if your buying an OEM processor and a heatsink separate rember to buy some thermal paste. Remember Windows though..Some people say that with a new mobo you should really re-format...Depends if theres anything that isn't backed up though
Pyrosurfer
DCEmu Nutter
DCEmu Nutter
Posts: 964
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 5:07 pm
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Post by Pyrosurfer » Mon Apr 12, 2004 9:09 pm

Jeez, you must upgrade a lot. The pc that your gonna build won't be a major improvement on what you have now. I upgraded from a p3 866mhz,128MB of ram, tnt2 gfx to a athlon 64 3200, 1gig of ram, radeon 9800.
Enki-14
DCEmu Nutter
DCEmu Nutter
Posts: 808
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2001 11:22 pm
Location: The Sirius System
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0
Contact:

Post by Enki-14 » Tue Apr 13, 2004 12:21 am

I tried to find a retailer in the uk , but I got lazy, sorry. Anyways I think this mobo is good. I upgraded to a new MSI mobo last year, and I love it. I haven't had a prob with it yet, plus just 2 days ago I OC my cpu on it. The bios has options to turn up the FSB on it manually, and you can change voltage core settings for your CPU too. It is also a micro-atx board, and is a cool red color. 8-) I like my red mobo anyway, matches my vid card.

Hope you can find a good deal on one if you plan on going with one.

http://www.msicomputer.com/product/deta ... l=K7N2GM-L
ian
Young Null Warrior
Young Null Warrior
Posts: 1053
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2003 12:14 am
Location: Ballarat, Victoria, Australia
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Post by ian » Tue Apr 13, 2004 2:11 am

spend less on processor and more on ram thats all you need to know :wink:
It's a livin' thing, Its a terrible thing to lose.
Matt
Soul Sold for DCEmu
Soul Sold for DCEmu
Posts: 4235
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2003 4:48 pm
Location: By my PC Hair:Bad
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0
Contact:

Post by Matt » Tue Apr 13, 2004 6:28 am

If you do want to upgrade the vid check this http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/products ... _uid=51649
ninja
DCEmu's own ninja
DCEmu's own ninja
Posts: 2381
Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2002 12:48 am
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Post by ninja » Tue Apr 13, 2004 6:49 am

ive got an A7V8X, runs perfectly. i dont see why the other guy is dissing it so much. from a personal standpoint, ive always hated abit boards, had a lot of trouble with 'em. Anyway, to get back on track: i dont see any real problems with the setup. i havent tried out any of the mobile proc's yet, so i cant comment on those, but from what ive heard they OC well, and the A7V8X is pretty good for overclocking as long as you have sufficient cooling.
Pyrosurfer wrote:Jeez, you must upgrade a lot. The pc that your gonna build won't be a major improvement on what you have now. I upgraded from a p3 866mhz,128MB of ram, tnt2 gfx to a athlon 64 3200, 1gig of ram, radeon 9800.
haha, i upgraded from an old Compaq (200 mhz, 32 mb ram, 16 mb video card), to a 1.4 ghz amd athlon t-bird (512 mb ram, 64 mb vid card), and im in the process of upgrading again myself.
Delete my posting account.

Thanks.
User avatar
az_bont
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 13567
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2002 8:35 am
Location: Swansea, Wales
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0
Contact:

Post by az_bont » Tue Apr 13, 2004 7:48 am

mattthemodder wrote:Ebuyer have quite a few heatsinks, if not try overclockers.co.uk.
Thanks, I'll have a nose around :).
mattthemodder wrote:
I still don't know what's wrong with my choices. Relatively speedy processor, a decent quantity of RAM, a cute little graphics card that will at least run the five year old games I play...
Technology is changing, people are buying 2Ghz plus machines to run word processors and internet browsers :roll:
Then those people are just being silly ;).
mattthemodder wrote:
What am I missing here? I'm all new to PC-building, so I'm fairly clueless.
Everythings there, but if your buying an OEM processor and a heatsink separate rember to buy some thermal paste. Remember Windows though..Some people say that with a new mobo you should really re-format...Depends if theres anything that isn't backed up though
I actually meant missing as in not getting :P. Boshi kept telling me that my motherboard was pants, but I'm just not getting why. I'd love to know, as I couldn't tell one board from the next myself :|.
Pyrosurfer wrote:Jeez, you must upgrade a lot. The pc that your gonna build won't be a major improvement on what you have now.
I'm only really repairing it, not too concerned about upgrading. I got that PC two years ago and I've yet to see a reason to upgrade it to some sort of super behemoth.
Enki-14 wrote:I tried to find a retailer in the uk , but I got lazy, sorry. Anyways I think this mobo is good. I upgraded to a new MSI mobo last year, and I love it. I haven't had a prob with it yet, plus just 2 days ago I OC my cpu on it. The bios has options to turn up the FSB on it manually, and you can change voltage core settings for your CPU too. It is also a micro-atx board, and is a cool red color. 8-) I like my red mobo anyway, matches my vid card.

Hope you can find a good deal on one if you plan on going with one.

http://www.msicomputer.com/product/deta ... l=K7N2GM-L
Thank you, but once again, I would like to know what's wrong with mine first. I like it because it's the chepaest one that can do what I want, and all the others seem to do know more. Are there any hidden advantages here I'm not seeing?
ian wrote:spend less on processor and more on ram thats all you need to know :wink:
Isn't 512MB enough?
mattthemodder wrote:If you do want to upgrade the vid check this http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/products ... _uid=51649
Ooh, I'm actually pretty tempted by that :D. How much of a difference is it between my old Radeon 7500 LE 64MB?
ninja wrote:ive got an A7V8X, runs perfectly. i dont see why the other guy is dissing it so much. from a personal standpoint, ive always hated abit boards, had a lot of trouble with 'em. Anyway, to get back on track: i dont see any real problems with the setup. i havent tried out any of the mobile proc's yet, so i cant comment on those, but from what ive heard they OC well, and the A7V8X is pretty good for overclocking as long as you have sufficient cooling.
Finally, some good news :D. So, if I am to overclock this thing, how far should I go, and what cooling will I need? Or can I just get the thing running normally first and then do the overclocking at a later date when I know a bit more?
Sick of sub-par Dreamcast web browsers that fail to impress? Visit Psilocybin Dreams!
Matt
Soul Sold for DCEmu
Soul Sold for DCEmu
Posts: 4235
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2003 4:48 pm
Location: By my PC Hair:Bad
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0
Contact:

Post by Matt » Tue Apr 13, 2004 8:02 am

Ooh, I'm actually pretty tempted by that . How much of a difference is it between my old Radeon 7500 LE 64MB?
I got no idea but im ordering one later :mrgreen:

Oh and for the overclocking, theres a lot of people having sucess at overclocking the mobiles @ the overclocking forum at Hardforum (hardforum.com)
Post Reply