Do you have Xbox Live?

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Post by atf487 » Fri Jun 20, 2003 7:42 pm

You pay for the service. Meaning all the games, under Live, one bill, etc. There used to be servers for UC, but those went away.

Too bad companies like Sega (with phantasy star, anyway) ruin it, and make it p2p.
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Post by CoasterKing » Fri Jun 20, 2003 7:57 pm

Live doesn't appeal to me right at this moment but the future line up of games looks very promising. I'll probably end up getting it at the end of the year or when Halo 2 comes out.
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Post by Gmc » Fri Jun 20, 2003 8:45 pm

Yep, kinda like a pay version of gamespy basically, but its REQUIRED to play online. There is Xbconnect, but the communities are small on them compared to them on the actual live serivce.

And quote from one of those links on the last page...
The Live starter kit, which includes a demo disc, communicator headset, and one year's subscription to Live will now cost $69.99 instead of $49.99, but existing subscribers can renew for another year for $49.99. A monthly subscription option will also be available at the rate of $6.99 per month.
That clears things up methinks ;)

I'll be getting Xbox live soon...I should get a few more live compatible games first though if you know what I mean...
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Post by TreyDay » Fri Jun 20, 2003 9:04 pm

Nyarlathotep wrote:
TreyDay wrote:The $50 I payed for it payed for the demos, the headset and microphone, and a subscription to the on-line service.
Yes, but my question is this:

When the years subscription is up, *what* are you actually then going to be paying for?
When the year's subscription is up, then you will be paying for *whatever* you want your money to go to. If want to use the service again, then you will have to pay $50 again. They've already announced the pricing plan. It's around $50 a year.
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Post by Luriden » Fri Jun 20, 2003 9:06 pm

I don't have an Xbox, and when I get one I probably won't because its BB only and I don't have BB. It does have a good lineup though, if I had an Xbox and BB I would definatly go for it.
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Post by Nyarlathotep » Sat Jun 21, 2003 5:33 am

DetunedRadio wrote:You pay for the service. Meaning all the games, under Live, one bill, etc. There used to be servers for UC, but those went away.

Too bad companies like Sega (with phantasy star, anyway) ruin it, and make it p2p.
No, its not 'one bill' at all; you pay:

Live! starter kit
Cost of whichever games you want to play
ISP costs + charges
Any server costs if the game you are interested in playing has dedicated servers


...and NONE of you have yet explained WHAT EXACTLY YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE PAYING FOR WITH LIVE!

Because as far as I can tell it works out cheaper / easier to just go buy a new Live starter kit after a free years up than to renew a subscription *because you aren't actually paying *for* anything* like servers, or gamertag high score tables, or game subscriptions for MMORPGs, or ISP costs, or, well, *anything* :?


Either I am totally missing the whole point of paying a monthly fee that 'simply' allows me to go online but provides absolutely no service for that charge, or the people posting in this thread about how great it is don't care if they're getting ripped off by paying for something they shouldn't be :?
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Post by Gmc » Sat Jun 21, 2003 7:22 am

Well you pay for ACCESS to it. Just like you have to pay for your ISP to get access to the internet. FOR GOD SAKE IS IT THAT HARD TO UNDERSTAND? lol.

And only ONE game requires additional fees, thats PSO cause Sonic Team are cheapasses (despite making very good games ;)).

If you want to buy another live starter kit every year your welcome to, its just that I'd rather keep my Gamertag so all my friends can keep contact with me ;)
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Post by theultimatechuff » Sat Jun 21, 2003 8:16 am

You are paying for access to a tight online service, Microsoft is intent on keeping a level playing field by keeping the hackers out which IMHO is a good thing.
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Post by pavelbure » Sat Jun 21, 2003 8:20 am

Gmc wrote:Well you pay for ACCESS to it. Just like you have to pay for your ISP to get access to the internet. FOR GOD SAKE IS IT THAT HARD TO UNDERSTAND? lol.
his whole point is " access for what ?".
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Post by Nyarlathotep » Sat Jun 21, 2003 8:35 am

Gmc wrote:Well you pay for ACCESS to it. Just like you have to pay for your ISP to get access to the internet. FOR GOD SAKE IS IT THAT HARD TO UNDERSTAND? lol.
Yes. Because I'm not paying an ISP for 'the privilege' of getting on the itnernet - I am paying for their server costs and bandwidth.

Likewise something like Everquest - you pay for the client, and then you pay a subscription fee to cover their server costs.

As far as I can tell, the Live subscription is there to 'allow me' to use the ethernet card in my Xbox - which in my mind *I already paid for when I bought my Xbox* - in fact theultimatechuff is the only person in this whole thread whos even vaguely made a suggestion what that moneys going towards other than MSs rather extensive profit margins, and thats stopping cheats / modchip users from using Live. But $70 a year to stop people with a modchip or action replay / gameshark playing online seems kinda high to me, and it seems like making honest payers have to pay to prevent cheats, which is bass ackwards :?

I STILL DON'T GET IT! I USE A PC AND PLAY ONLINE GAMES FOR FREE! This whole 'pay for the privilege of using the full capabilities of the hardware and software you have *already paid money for*' thing is actually REALLY confusing me :?
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Post by CoasterKing » Sat Jun 21, 2003 10:38 am

Well IMO it's pretty simple.

You are paying Microsoft to play on thier dedicated game servers in a similar way that you have to pay blueyonder ?38 a year to use thier best dedicated game servers. Like most MMORPGs you are paying for the constant maintenace and upgrading of servers. I do see your point Nyar but I don't really think ?4 a month for an optimised, cheat free online gaming experience is that much. Certainly there is the possibility of more games with monthly fees and that I would have an issue with.

I mean look at it this way. How much did most UK Dreamcast owners spend on phone calls playing DC online just because Sega Europe wouldn't give us the option to use our own free ISPs until PSOv2 came out. We were paying for Segas server costs just like MS expect us to pay for thiers.

Anyway like I've said, at the moment I agree it's not worth the cash but in a years time there will be enough exclusive (and non exclusive obviously) content to make it value for money.

PS you *can* technically use the Xbox ethernet card without forking out for LIVE ie Xbconnect
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Post by Nyarlathotep » Sat Jun 21, 2003 10:56 am

CoasterKing wrote:You are paying Microsoft to play on thier dedicated game servers in a similar way that you have to pay blueyonder ?38 a year to use thier best dedicated game servers.
No, see, *THAT* is the thing thats bugging me: MS *DON'T* provide servers, dedicated or otherwise. Live! is all peer to peer connections.

If they *DID* then I wouldn't see any problems with Live! - but they don't, so I do :?
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Post by |darc| » Sat Jun 21, 2003 11:13 am

Nyarlathotep wrote:No, see, *THAT* is the thing thats bugging me: MS *DON'T* provide servers, dedicated or otherwise. Live! is all peer to peer connections
And how do you think those p2p connections get started? By connecting to Microsoft's servers, and then connecting to someone else from there.
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Post by TreyDay » Sat Jun 21, 2003 11:19 am

You pay to connect to Xbox Live. Why is that hard to understand? You aren't paying to use the ethernet card because you can use it to go on XBConnect without paying and you can setup a network with it without paying for Live! Also, it's cheaper to pay by the year than it is to pay $10 a month. 50/12=$4.17 a month. It's cheaper than $10 a month, it's cheaper than $5 a month.
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Post by bounty hunter » Sat Jun 21, 2003 12:41 pm

Because I'm not paying for servers, games, connection fees, ISP costs, or anything else that games companies charge money for: *WHAT exactly* is that money supposed to be paying for?

The privilege of being 'worthy' enough to use Live!?
in a word.....yea.

you should be ashamed of not having Live...RTCW and Unreal Championship as well as PSO 1 & II are not to be missed.

so go pay a measly 50 and get worthy...or (better idea) get a job first and quit sponging off parents...then get worthy...
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Post by bizzle » Sat Jun 21, 2003 12:44 pm

bounty hunter wrote:
Because I'm not paying for servers, games, connection fees, ISP costs, or anything else that games companies charge money for: *WHAT exactly* is that money supposed to be paying for?

The privilege of being 'worthy' enough to use Live!?
in a word.....yea.

you should be ashamed of not having Live...RTCW and Unreal Championship as well as PSO 1 & II are not to be missed.

so go pay a measly 50 and get worthy...or (better idea) get a job first and quit sponging off parents...then get worthy...
LOL, Nyar has a job. He works for Jagex, who makes Runescape(a MMORPG).
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Post by Skater_dusto » Sat Jun 21, 2003 9:15 pm

Would it really make a difference if the money you pay for xbox live actually went towards something? All the other consoles have you pay something as well, so why complain? It's not like it's too expensive, as opposed to buying a ps2 and all the junk it takes to get online.
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Post by EvilSporkMan » Sat Jun 21, 2003 10:36 pm

Live isn't p2p, it's client/server (well, largely, MotoGP really was p2p). You pay for Microsoft to run their authentication and matching servers which also track stats, not to mention "free" (included) downloadable content. Solid, cheap (surprisingly, and relatively speaking) prices have been announced on the site. Unfortunately, the community is huge, which means there are lots of idiots, and I will not be renewing my subscription unless I purchase some sweet games and/or develop a habit of playing with real-life friends. Incidentally, I've got great hands =)
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Post by Nyarlathotep » Sun Jun 22, 2003 5:42 am

|darc| wrote:And how do you think those p2p connections get started? By connecting to Microsoft's servers, and then connecting to someone else from there.
So they have a nameserver you verify at before the Live! gamespy equivalent does its p2p search.
Like HalfLife has a WONID check before you can play online. Or most PC games with online functions have a basic anti cheat / anti piracy verification check before they can be playd online. They don't cost money on PC because its an anti piracy device primarily and its a bit cheeky to make people pay extra to ensure theyre using a bought game...
bounty hunter wrote:you should be ashamed of not having Live...RTCW and Unreal Championship as well as PSO 1 & II are not to be missed.
a) if I didnt work for a living I wouldn't care what my income went on

b) you make assumptions

c) RTCW and UC both have a superior version on PC which doesnt require *any* additional costs to play online. And have mods.

d) PSO I & II has a superior version on the GC which you can play in offline mode without subscribing to any online service and with downloadable GBA games

e) you suck
Skater_dusto wrote:Would it really make a difference if the money you pay for xbox live actually went towards something? All the other consoles have you pay something as well, so why complain? It's not like it's too expensive, as opposed to buying a ps2 and all the junk it takes to get online.
It matters to me because if I got Live! I wouldn't want to play it for my free year and then not use it anymore becuase it is (as far as I can tell from everything I have heard about it, and nooone in this thread has persuaded me differently) an utter rip off once that free period is up.
EvilSporkMan wrote:Live isn't p2p, it's client/server (well, largely, MotoGP really was p2p). You pay for Microsoft to run their authentication and matching servers which also track stats, not to mention "free" (included) downloadable content.
The only Xbox games I played via Live! (RTCW, UC, MotoGP) were all P2P - which ones aren't?

I was also under the impression from people I know who have Live and are very unimpessed that those stat tracking servers wipe the stats regularly - again begging the question what is the point of even having them?

In the end the only things I've heard in this thread justifying the cost of a Live! subscription (IE: AFTER YOUR FREE YEAR IS UP) is that there is an authentication server to prevent cheats, and that you can download some stuff which is supposedly going to be given away free on the demo disks anyway.

I'm still unconvinced, and its going to take a hell of a lot more than some old PC game ports to get me to bother even considering getting Live!
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Post by theultimatechuff » Sun Jun 22, 2003 7:01 am

In summary I guess its up to individuals to decide whether the benefits are worth the cost. I havent got live yet but as all the hacking on PC games continues i just might.

Im glad its paid for - otherwise the cost would be somewhere else, microsoft makes a loss on the console and if live was included as part of it then all the R&D and upkeep costs would be on the console price or live games would cost more making developers weary of including content.

I think they have done well bringing online console gaming to the masses, it really looked like it wouldnt take off at one point.
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