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Post by az_bont » Mon Mar 10, 2003 5:30 pm

Firthy, that guy in the link seemed to be fine until...
That guy Firthy posted about (who is an idiot) wrote:I say wait and see the PS2 can display far more Polygons than the Dreamcast, and in the end I'm sure this
Anti-alias controversy will go away, I mean this is first generation PS2
people! I just don't think Sony is that stupid to trade Polygons for
Anti-aliasing!
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Post by -Azathoth- » Mon Mar 10, 2003 5:36 pm

Ecco not possible on the PS2? Well, thats certainly changed....
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Post by Firthy2002 » Mon Mar 10, 2003 5:36 pm

I was replying to az_bont.
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Post by BlackAura » Mon Mar 10, 2003 8:08 pm

The PS2 and the DC are pretty much even.

The DC has a far more powerful graphics system, which is actually capable of rendering as much data as the CPU can possibly throw at it. The two are very well matched. However, it doesn't quite have enough main RAM, so it can't hold that much geometry data in main RAM.

The PS2 has a more powerful CPU, but hideously underpowered graphics hardware. The CPU can generate data for far more polygons than the rendering system can draw, and it lacks nearly all of the special effects or abilities of the DC. It certainly doesn't have enough Video RAM (only 4MB) which means programmers need to use more tricks to get around it.

Even with 'texture streaming' (using main RAM to temporarily hold textures), the DC can still hold more texture data than a PS2 can, because it has twice as much VRAM and texture compression.
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Post by zero » Mon Mar 10, 2003 10:06 pm

i'm just thinking right now what gta:vice city would of looked like if it was only made for the gc or xbox.
we would have better looking games if the ps2 wasn't around, thats for sure, and i can't say i'd miss it too, cos whatever games was gonna come out for it, would end up going to another console and probally looking better.

but i can see the ps3 failing if they do or even try to do what they are saying.
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Post by BornStupid » Mon Mar 10, 2003 10:12 pm

i'm just thinking right now what gta:vice city would of looked like if it was only made for the gc or xbox.
we would have better looking games if the ps2 wasn't around, thats for sure, and i can't say i'd miss it too, cos whatever games was gonna come out for it, would end up going to another console and probally looking better.
Im wondering what shenmue 2 would have looked like had it been done on XBOX and not DC.. that's a stupid question.
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Post by Chaniyth » Mon Mar 10, 2003 10:36 pm

Xylene wrote:they say that now, but remember how ps2 was supposed to push out 70 million polygons, it didnt happen though.
Neither does the stupid lame X-Box neither. Quotes it at 125Million Polygons Per Second, yet it only pushes around what Nintendo Gamecube does.

Kudos to Sega and Nintendo for giving more realistic (even underestimating) their systems true powers.
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Post by zero » Tue Mar 11, 2003 11:32 am

BornStupid wrote:
i'm just thinking right now what gta:vice city would of looked like if it was only made for the gc or xbox.
we would have better looking games if the ps2 wasn't around, thats for sure, and i can't say i'd miss it too, cos whatever games was gonna come out for it, would end up going to another console and probally looking better.
Im wondering what shenmue 2 would have looked like had it been done on XBOX and not DC.. that's a stupid question.
yes but the dc was out longer then the ps2, and it's just as powerfull as it too, but the ps2 is no-where near the power of xbox and gamecube.
and yes, i'd say shenmue 2 would of looked better on xbox if it was made for it, but look how goos shenmue 2 looks anyway, it beats even most psc2 games in gfx thats out today, the ps2 could of and should of had much better gfx then dc, as it came out a year after it, the xbox and gc came out a year after ps2 and has much better gfx then the ps2, just like the ps2 should of had over dc.

kubyx wrote:
Neither does the stupid lame xbox neither. Quotes it at 125Million Polygons Per Second, yet it only pushes around what Nintendo Gamecube does.

Kudos to Sega and Nintendo for giving more realistic (even underestimating) their systems true powers.
i have to say you're right, nintendo and sega never lied about the power of there consoles, and since sega is gone, thats why i would love to see nintendo back on top once again.
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Post by Lartrak » Tue Mar 11, 2003 2:00 pm

it beats even most psc2 games in gfx thats out today
Yeah, but just like the PSOne, the PS2 gets more trash then any other system. :P
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Post by zero » Tue Mar 11, 2003 4:47 pm

Lartrak wrote:
it beats even most psc2 games in gfx thats out today
Yeah, but just like the PSOne, the PS2 gets more trash then any other system. :P
im not talking about any of the bad games..

go on i bet no-one here can really name a game for ps2 that looks a lot better thn shenmue 2( and by a lot i don't just mean a little bit), and see if ye can name one game on ps2 that couldn't be done on the dc one way or another. the ps2's leap over dc should of been the same as the leap m$ and nintendo made over ps2. but it wasn't, and cos of that all us games players has to put up with gfx that could of been done on a 4year old system.
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Post by impetus » Wed Mar 12, 2003 12:15 pm

All the same, you've gotta admit that "PS3" is a very original name for the new system. :roll:
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Post by Wasgo » Wed Mar 12, 2003 1:08 pm

zero wrote:
Lartrak wrote:
it beats even most psc2 games in gfx thats out today
Yeah, but just like the PSOne, the PS2 gets more trash then any other system. :P
im not talking about any of the bad games..

go on i bet no-one here can really name a game for ps2 that looks a lot better thn shenmue 2( and by a lot i don't just mean a little bit), and see if ye can name one game on ps2 that couldn't be done on the dc one way or another. the ps2's leap over dc should of been the same as the leap m$ and nintendo made over ps2. but it wasn't, and cos of that all us games players has to put up with gfx that could of been done on a 4year old system.
That's probably because the overall rate of improvement in graphics in the PC sector has been fairly small in recent years. Nothing has made people give up on CS or older games, because newer ones just don't look that much better. It's all in the minute detail.
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Post by BlackAura » Wed Mar 12, 2003 7:41 pm

And until very recently, nobody's been making use of the special capabilities of cards like the GeForce 3, and other newer cards. All games will still run on a GeForce 2 or equivalent (often on a TNT2 or equivalent), and they don't look any worse. They just run slower.
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Post by 404NotFound » Wed Mar 12, 2003 7:44 pm

Also, don't forget that the Dreamcast was 150 bucks at Playstation2 release, and then 100 dollars not long after that.

Then, of course, it was 50, but that kinda doesn't count.
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Post by Lartrak » Thu Mar 13, 2003 1:01 pm

go on i bet no-one here can really name a game for ps2 that looks a lot better thn shenmue 2( and by a lot i don't just mean a little bit), and see if ye can name one game on ps2 that couldn't be done on the dc one way or another. the ps2's leap over dc should of been the same as the leap m$ and nintendo made over ps2. but it wasn't, and cos of that all us games players has to put up with gfx that could of been done on a 4year old system.
Better then Shenmue 2... Silent Hill 3 is looking quite a bit better to me, personally. That's probably the only one I can think of that looks more then marginally better.

Theoretically, you could do Halo on the DC, so saying games can't be ported both ways isn't really fair. Vice City would have been badly butchered though (the radio would have been chopped badly, at the very least), as would Halo.
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Post by fatheadpi » Thu Mar 13, 2003 1:20 pm

(the radio would have been chopped badly, at the very least), as would Halo.
Not really butchered, just reduced. The audio would have (probably) been reencoded to CRI ADX. While ADX audio is fairly cpu easy to decode (from what Krypt_ told me a while back), it has a crappy (only 1/4) compression ratio. It's a common things to see SEGA-made stuff like PSO, Sonic Adventure, and MSR use up maybe 100 megs of the disc for actual game data, 150 megs for SOFDEC videos, and almost800 megs in ADX files / AFS ADX archives. That's one area where the PS2's DVD drive definitely has the advantage, although I don't know what kind of audio format the PS2 uses.
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Post by BlackAura » Thu Mar 13, 2003 10:00 pm

From what I've seen, some weird kind of ADPCM encoding, which encodes 16-bit samples down to 4-bit (1/4 compression ratio again).
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