ps3 100 times faster then a p4.

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ps3 100 times faster then a p4.

Post by zero » Sat Mar 08, 2003 11:51 am

Posted on Tue, Mar. 04, 2003

Sony chip could transform video-game industry
TECHNOLOGY ENVISIONS ALL-IN-ONE BOX FOR HOME
By Dean Takahashi
Mercury News

Sony's next-generation video-game console, due in just two years, will feature a revolutionary architecture that will allow it to pack the processing power of a hundred of today's personal computers on a single chip and tap the resources of additional computers using high-speed network connections.

If key technical hurdles are overcome, the ``cell microprocessor'' technology, described in a patent Sony quietly secured in September, could help the Japanese electronics giant achieve the industry's holy grail: a cheap, all-in-one box for the home that can record television shows, surf the Net in 3-D, play music and run movie-like video games.

Besides the PlayStation 3 game console, Sony and its partners, IBM and Toshiba, hope to use the same basic chip design -- which organizes small groups of microprocessors to work together like bees in a hive -- for a range of computing devices, from tiny handheld personal digital assistants to the largest corporate servers.

If the partners succeed in crafting such a modular, all-purpose chip, it would challenge the dominance of Intel and other chip makers that make specialized chips for each kind of electronic device.

``This is a new class of beast,'' said Richard Doherty, an analyst at the Envisioneering Group in Seaford, N.Y. ``There is nothing like this project when it comes to how far-reaching it will be.''

Game industry insiders became aware of Sony's patent in the past few weeks, and the technology is expected to be a hot topic at the Game Developers Conference in San Jose this week. Since it can take a couple of years to write a game for a new system, developers will be pressing Sony and its rivals for technical details of their upcoming boxes, which are scheduled to debut in 2005.

Ken Kutaragi, head of Sony's game division and mastermind of the company's last two game boxes, is betting that in an era of networked devices, many distributed processors working together will be able to outperform a single processor, such as the Pentium chip at the heart of most PCs.

With the PS 3, Sony will apparently put 72 processors on a single chip: eight PowerPC microprocessors, each of which controls eight auxiliary processors.

Using sophisticated software to manage the workload, the PowerPC processors will divide complicated problems into smaller tasks and tap as many of the auxiliary processors as necessary to tackle them.

``The cell processors won't work alone,'' Doherty said. ``They will work in teams to handle the tasks at hand, no matter whether it is processing a video game or communications.''

As soon as each processor or team finishes its job, it will be immediately redeployed to do something else.

Such complex, on-the-fly coordination is a technical challenge, and not just for Sony. Game developers warn that the cell chips do so many things at once that it could be a nightmare writing programs for them -- the same complaint they originally had about the PlayStation 2, Sony's current game console.

Tim Sweeney, chief executive of Epic Games in Raleigh, N.C., said that programming games for the PS 3 will be far more complicated than for the PS 2 because the programmer will have to keep track of all the tasks being performed by dozens of processors.

``I can't imagine how you will actually program it,'' he said. ``You do all these tasks in parallel, but the results of one task may affect the results of another task.''

But Sony and its partners believe that if they can coordinate those processors at maximum efficiency, the PS 3 will be able to process a trillion math operations per second -- the equivalent of 100 Intel Pentium 4 chips and 1,000 times faster than processing power of the PS 2.

That kind of power would likely enable the PS 3 to simultaneously handle a wide range of electronic tasks in the home. For example, the kids might be able to race each other in a Grand Prix video game while Dad records an episode of ``The Simpsons.''

``The home server and the PS 3 may be the same thing,'' said Kunitake Ando, president and chief operating officer of Sony, at a recent dinner in Las Vegas.

Sony officials said that one key feature of the cell design is that if a device doesn't have enough processing power itself to handle everything, it can reach out to unused processors across the Internet and tap them for help.

Peter Glaskowsky, editor of the Microprocessor Report, said Sony is ``being too ambitious'' with the networked aspect of the cell design because even the fastest Internet connections are usually way too slow to coordinate tasks efficiently.

The cell chips are due to begin production in 2004, and the PS 3 console is expected to be ready at the same time that Nintendo and Microsoft launch their next-generation-game consoles in 2005.

Nintendo will likely focus on making a pure game box, but Microsoft, like Sony, envisions its next game console as a universal digital box.

A big risk for Sony and its allies is that in their quest to create a universal cell-based chip, they might compromise the PS 3's core video-game functionality. Chips suitable for a handheld, for example, might not be powerful enough to handle gaming tasks.

Sony has tried to address this problem by making the cell design modular; it can add more processors for a server, or use fewer of them in a handheld device.

``We plan to use the cell chips in other things besides the PlayStation 3,'' Ando said. ``IBM will use it in servers, and Toshiba will use it in consumer devices. You'd be surprised how much we are working on it now.''

But observers remain skeptical. ``It's very hard to use a special-purpose design across a lot of products, and this sounds like a very special-purpose chip,'' Glaskowsky said.

The processors will be primed for operation in a broadband, Net-connected environment and will be connected by a next-generation high-speed technology developed by Rambus of Los Altos.

Nintendo and Microsoft say they won't lag behind Sony on technology, nor will they be late in deploying their own next-generation systems.

While the outcome is murky now, analyst Doherty said that a few things are clear: ``Games are the engine of the next big wave of computing. Kutaragi is the dance master, and Sony is calling the shots.''

well i don't know, but it sounds like sony could be making a big mistake with this one.
for a start it sounds to me like games are not it's mean objective, plus it sounds like it will be next to imposible for games to be made for, if m$ and nintendo don't make this mistake and go down the same road, i can see whos gonna get the most games :wink:.
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Post by bizzle » Sat Mar 08, 2003 11:55 am

they say that now, but remember how ps2 was supposed to push out 70 million polygons, it didnt happen though.
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Post by -Azathoth- » Sat Mar 08, 2003 12:01 pm

It's all HYPE. Sony's marketing machine has apparently swung into action. Remember the "Emotion Engine" BS Sony spewed during the Dreamcast's reign as the best console, all the while the PS2 wasnt even out yet? It's just vaporware for now, and of course, stupid kids will let it influence them into not buying anything "Sony". :headshot:

Remember this, it is NOT in Sony's best interest to develop console technology far surpassing their competition's latest designs, as doing so will only further development costs for the following generation of console technology. Thus we have the Playstation 2. :roll:
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Post by Sultan of Saturn » Sat Mar 08, 2003 12:03 pm

It sounds like a lot of hot air from the Sony propaganda machine. If we remember from the last round of propaganda for the PS2, it was supposed to:

1) handle the power for games created to look just like Toy Story

2) have games that look just like Star Wars Episode 1

3) be online by spring 2001

4) be the great interactive gaming machine with numerous USB peripherals to connect to the PS2 with games that would be compatible with them

As the overhype really took a lot of wind out of the sails of the Dreamcast, I take anything from the mouth of Sony with a grain of salt.
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Post by Calavera » Sat Mar 08, 2003 12:15 pm

I think they also said that it would greatly improve the graphics of PS1 games
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Post by 404NotFound » Sat Mar 08, 2003 12:26 pm

It's all BS...
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Post by EverStoned » Sat Mar 08, 2003 12:47 pm

If that technology existed, it would be in my PC long before it was in my PS3
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Post by BornStupid » Sat Mar 08, 2003 1:51 pm

If that technology existed, it would be in my PC long before it was in my PS3
Sony patented it.. even thought they're working with Toshiba and IBM, it's sony's patent... so this option won't be around for Intel, AMD, MS and Nintendo...

This is more of a concept then anything else... all the complicated shit's not been worked out yet... let's not jump to conclusions, this is one of those things we'll have to wait and see, as this is a whole new technology (the PS2 was just the next step), this is a whole new thing. 2 years baby...
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Post by Skater_dusto » Sat Mar 08, 2003 2:52 pm

Xylene wrote:they say that now, but remember how ps2 was supposed to push out 70 million polygons, it didnt happen though.
I was just going to bring that up!

Look at how piss poor the graphics on the ps2 are, opposed to the released specs before the system came out. 100x times faster than the ps2!? Hahahah, bull shit.

I remember hearing that the cell technology that's going to be used in the ps3 doesn't even exist yet. Those all being statements from Sony and/or IBM(don't quote me on that one).

If the ps3 does indeed do all that stuff then I'll buy one once it's cheaper. Hopefully it won't be a buggy peice of crap like the ps2!!! I've played mine for about an hour since I got it for christmas. The dvd play on that thing is already dropping frames, enough that it's noticeable by my crappy eye sight too. :o

Good thing I kept the box cause once this thing craps out on me I'm returning it for a new system. *sigh*
A buddy of mine has already exhanged 3 ps2's so far. He can't even be considered a hardcore gamer either. Sony's hit a new low.
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Post by Enki-14 » Sat Mar 08, 2003 6:32 pm

Sony's next-generation video-game console, due in just two years, will feature a revolutionary architecture that will allow it to pack the processing power of a hundred of today's personal computers on a single chip and tap the resources of additional computers using high-speed network connections.
Hey, remember when kazaa was starting to put that same spyware crap in thier software? Kazaa lite was born.. Imagine having you friend over and saying to him "the graphics would be better but everyone else is using thier PS3's right now too." Fvcking weak. Worse than sh.itty overloaded ISP servers..
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Post by 404NotFound » Sat Mar 08, 2003 7:10 pm

if this IS true it will be even HARDER to program than the PS2..
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Post by BornStupid » Sat Mar 08, 2003 7:45 pm

Hey, remember when kazaa was starting to put that same spyware crap in thier software? Kazaa lite was born.. Imagine having you friend over and saying to him "the graphics would be better but everyone else is using thier PS3's right now too." Fvcking weak. Worse than sh.itty overloaded ISP servers..
Learn to read, I seriously doubt the games would need that, it's when you start doing more then 1 task at once (gaming and recording live tv, etc) it has the ABILITY to access processors not used (which seems like more of an idea then something that'll work out as ud need a faster connection then what u can get right now). This probably won't happen, but it's nice they're tyring out new options... and stop all this ps2 crap, it's so predictable... just wait and see instead of acting like you know what you're talking about.
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Post by |darc| » Sat Mar 08, 2003 7:58 pm

Skater_dusto wrote:100x times faster than the ps2!? Hahahah, bull poop.
No no, not 100x faster than the ps2, 100x faster than a PENTIUM 4. BS.
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Post by Wagh » Sat Mar 08, 2003 7:58 pm

hmm what bothers me is that Sony is saying grid computing is new O.o
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Post by 404NotFound » Sat Mar 08, 2003 8:18 pm

With the PS 3, Sony will apparently put 72 processors on a single chip: eight PowerPC microprocessors, each of which controls eight auxiliary processors.
And developers didn't like the Saturn because it had TWO processors...
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Post by bizzle » Sat Mar 08, 2003 8:29 pm

sony is just so funny.
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Post by spaghetti » Sat Mar 08, 2003 8:40 pm

I couldn't care less about "what's coming out" or what is in the future. If it's not here now, I can't use it, so thinking about it is just a waste of time. If Sony delivers on these specs though, I'll go shoot myself in the head. It's just not gonna happen. You can't just patent a spec and then suddenly make it a working product in just two years. All the existing processors, which are vastly simple compared to what Sony is dreaming about, have taken YEARS OF DEVELOPMENT. They are building off tons of work already been done. You can't do that from scratch. It's just not gonna happen.

And who cares about a frickin' "home server" or all-in-one box. Those have been around in various forms tons of times, and they always fail.
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Post by BlackAura » Sat Mar 08, 2003 10:20 pm

I don't beleive it, really. Here's what's wrong with it:

Cost - How much does a single PowerPC CPU cost? Multiply that by 72, and add a bit because of the extra cost involved in making them extra small. That would be, at least, a few thousand dollars. And that's just for the CPU. If you take memory into account too, it could end up costing a few tens of thousands of dollars.

Heat - How much heat does a single P4 put out? Unless they've also invented nanotechnology on the quiet, it'll generate enough heat to melt anything they try to use as a heatsink.

Size - As above, unless they've invented nanotechnology, the thing will be too large (think about ten Xboxes) using current manufacturing methods.

Network Speed - Even a 100MB/s LAN can't do that much over a network. Unless the network is very fast, and designed for distributed processing, it's just not going to work.

Programming - Basically, it'd just be too hard to program the thing. Especially if it has no fixed system configuration or speed, being able to borrow CPU time from other machines.

Maybe in about 15 years. But not in two years. Just shows what the advertising department know about technology. And if this technology exists, and is feisable, then they may as well try to replace PCs as well, because they would probably succeed.
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Post by Egotistical EvilN » Sun Mar 09, 2003 2:21 am

wow, blackaura sed exactly what i was thinking, except for the fact i dont want $ONY users using my processors clock cycles..
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Post by MetalGearRay » Sun Mar 09, 2003 3:14 am

The PS3 processor stuff is BS. The high-end computers at the time when the PS3 comes out are gonna own it. I'm tired of all the companies over-hyping their products.
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