Crazy old hardware upgrades

[DaMadFiddler]

I'd read this article a few years ago, but coming across it again really makes me want to start equipment-hunting and trick out an SE/30:

http://www.cultofmac.com/3986/the-se30- ... -mac-user/

For those who are unfamiliar, the Macintosh SE/30 was the best of Apple's original line (pre-iMac) of all-in-one systems. It debuted in 1989, and its combination of upgrade options made it possible to keep relevant far longer than even Apple probably intended.



RAM: The system came with 1MB or 4MB by default. The system has 8 RAM slots, which can accommodate up to 128MB--an insane amount for when it was made. Some legacy code in the ROM prevented it from addressing more than 8MB, but there are two workarounds for this: a software one in the form of an official system extension from Apple, and a hardware one in that the ROM is socketed, and can be swapped out for an updated version from a compatible system.

Graphics: It has the same 1-bit, 512x342 display that all the "classic" one-piece Macs are saddled with. There are two options for getting around this. The first is to install a graphics adapter for use with an external monitor. This will let you use a high(er) resolution, color display... but kind of ruins the aesthetic of the compact one-piece unit. Alternatively, there was one particular graphics card released for the SE/30 that connects directly to the CRT inside, using an additional (optional) yoke, allowing it to function as a 256-shade grayscale display.

Storage: By default, the system comes with a 1.44MB floppy drive and a 40MB or 80MB internal hard drive. However, depending on the version of MacOS used, it can accommodate much larger drives. System 6 maxes out at 2GB per partition; newer versions (the SE/30 can natively support up to System 7.5.5) can handle more. Replacing the hard drive with a 2GB or 4GB CompactFlash card is easily doable with an adapter, and provides a low-power, high-capacity solid state option. The SE/30 also has an external SCSI port, which means a separate CD/RW unit is no problem.

CPU: The stock processor is a 16MHz, 32-bit Motorola 68030. However, third-party upgrade kits were sold for the model, allowing you to upgrade either to a faster-clocked 68030, or to a 68040. (The latter will make the system capable of running some newer software, but breaks compatibility with some older titles).

Internet: Though the web didn't exist in its current form when the SE/30 launched, 10base-T networking adapters (both internal and external) were later made available for this model. Combined with the right software, the computer can easily handle email and struggle its way through the increasingly script-heavy Internet. The biggest limitation at this point is actually the lack of a modern browser, rather than the technical limitations of the system itself. Probably the best option for the "modern" Internet is an early 68k port of iCab.

So basically, with the right upgrades, this little 80s-computer-that-could is able to more or less keep pace with machines 10 years its junior. For basic usability needs, it wasn't inescapably obsolete until the early 2000s.



I think it would be fun to sit there with my 50MHz grayscale SE/30, revisiting 90s Macintosh CD-ROM games and posting to the forums. Everything I could possibly do with it would fit neatly onto the solid-state drive, and its comparatively limited nature would make it a good "first computer" for kids when that day comes.

[melancholy]

and its comparatively limited nature would make it a good "first computer" for kids when that day comes.

As a father with a child that has been using an iPad since he was 18 months old, and got his first iPod for Christmas when he was 2, this sentence makes me laugh. I had enough trouble making him understand that the TV doesn't have a touchscreen, so I couldn't even imagine giving this to my child and expecting him to find any entertainment out of it.

Nostalgia, sure, I could see that for yourself. A starter computer for a child in 2013? Not a chance.

[DaMadFiddler]

One of my favorite toys as a kid was my grandmother's Remington No. 12 typewriter. I wish we still had it; my dad put it in storage when I was a teenager, and I think it was donated to charity when I went off to college.

It may not be the best introduction to technology as it currently stands, but it's still a perfectly competent word processor with other amusements such as paint programs and some simple games.

[cube_b3]

I look at these things from our child hood with such fondness.

Though the IT class back in school was shit.
I don't remember enjoying computer history class, they had the old IBM 486, with the big floppy disk drive hooked up to black and white monitors. The IT Lab was obsolete compared to my Pentium computer at home with Windows 3.1 and a color monitor.

I still have a functional floppy drive in my desktop though I don't have any floppies.

I don't think my kids would share my fondness for the obsolete, as I don't remember being particularly fond of it in my youth.

[Specially Cork]

One of my favorite toys as a kid was my grandmother's Remington No. 12 typewriter. I wish we still had it; my dad put it in storage when I was a teenager, and I think it was donated to charity when I went off to college.

It may not be the best introduction to technology as it currently stands, but it's still a perfectly competent word processor with other amusements such as paint programs and some simple games.

I dunno, my son's 18 months and his top three video games are Angry Birds Star Wars, Forza Horizon and Minecraft. With the second I had to move my 360 out of reach because he opens the DVD tray if I'm playing something else.

It's not like I'm some lazy Dad who spends all day ignoring his kid and playing video games either. But you can't realistically spend your baby's every waking hour avoiding the computer, the TV, your smartphone...you're gonna have to use them in eyeshot eventually, and then all your good intentions are unraveled in an instant because all they want to do at that age is whatever the hell you like doing. Your son will be screaming and waving controllers and iPads in your face forevermore.

[melancholy]

One of my favorite toys as a kid was my grandmother's Remington No. 12 typewriter. I wish we still had it; my dad put it in storage when I was a teenager, and I think it was donated to charity when I went off to college.

It may not be the best introduction to technology as it currently stands, but it's still a perfectly competent word processor with other amusements such as paint programs and some simple games.

Oh my son would loooove a typewriter. It's physicality makes it a wonderful toy, with all the metal hammers flinging and pounding the paper, making tactile impressions on paper. It would fascinate him. But if I were to put him in front of an old Macintosh, where there is only indirect action between pushing something and having it happen on screen, he wouldn't last 5 minutes before finding something more interactive. Not to mention the mouse would just confuse the crap out of him.

[DaMadFiddler]

I look at these things from our child hood with such fondness.

Though the IT class back in school was shit.
I don't remember enjoying computer history class, they had the old IBM 486, with the big floppy disk drive hooked up to black and white monitors. The IT Lab was obsolete compared to my Pentium computer at home with Windows 3.1 and a color monitor.

I still have a functional floppy drive in my desktop though I don't have any floppies.

I don't think my kids would share my fondness for the obsolete, as I don't remember being particularly fond of it in my youth.

Wait, what? That chronology sounds a little... not quite right. Sole reliance on 5.25" disks and b/w monitors had both pretty much died out by the 286. VGA was pretty much ubiquitous by the 486, as was Windows 3.1. And I don't recall ever seeing a Pentium running something less than Win95.

[DaMadFiddler]

Incidentally, the last computer I owned that had a 5.25" floppy drive was the P4 tower I had in college (built summer 2001). Even then it was an anachronism, but I had the drive in my box of spare parts, and the full-tower case I had for that machine had more drive bays than I knew what to do with, so I figured "why not?"

[melancholy]

I don't think my kids would share my fondness for the obsolete, as I don't remember being particularly fond of it in my youth.

I agree with that. Computers before the mid-90's were just such a pain to work with that I really never got an interest in them until Windows 95-98 came along. And now even Win98 computers are annoying. I wanted to play Riven a couple years ago and had been given an old Windows 95 machine. Just getting the damn thing running was a bear, and when I finally did, I didn't feel nostalgia or a sense of accomplishment like I used to. I just felt fed up with it. I couldn't imagine then giving it to my son and saying 'here, have fun'.

But then again, we all have nostalgia for different things. DMF obviously has it for old PC's, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Wait, what? That chronology sounds a little... not quite right. Sole reliance on 5.25" disks and b/w monitors had both pretty much died out by the 286. VGA was pretty much ubiquitous by the 486, as was Windows 3.1. And I don't recall ever seeing a Pentium running something less than Win95.

Well, I don't know about the first part, but the first Pentiums came out in late 92/early 93. I have a distant cousin that had a Pentium on Windows 3.1, and the only reason I remember that was because he brought it over to a family reunion just to hook it up in the garage and show it off. I also remember his dad not wanting to talk about the price of it and was incredibly paranoid of anyone touching it.

[DaMadFiddler]

I don't think my kids would share my fondness for the obsolete, as I don't remember being particularly fond of it in my youth.

I agree with that. Computers before the mid-90's were just such a pain to work with that I really never got an interest in them until Windows 95-98 came along. And now even Win98 computers are annoying. I wanted to play Riven a couple years ago and had been given an old Windows 95 machine. Just getting the damn thing running was a bear, and when I finally did, I didn't feel nostalgia or a sense of accomplishment like I used to. I just felt fed up with it. I couldn't imagine then giving it to my son and saying 'here, have fun'.

As a kid, I *loved* tinkering with things and trying to get them to do more than they were designed for. The oldness of something doesn't really gain a "cool" factor until they're at least teenagers and old enough to have some historical perspective, but if presented simply for what it is, a computer that can do X, Y, and Z, that will have a very different impact than "look at this thing nobody uses any more but dad remembers from his childhood. Isn't that neat?"

Mainly, it's not so much handing it off and saying "here you go" as it is using the thing as a tool. There are games for those systems that are worth playing. There are paint and other useful and entertaining programs, and it's a perfectly good word processor. Just modern enough to do what a beginner would needs, with room to grow and explore without really letting them do anything you wouldn't want them to.

My first computer was an Apple II+, which was given to me by a family friend when I started sixth grade... in the mid-90s. It was 15 years out of date by that point, and it was prompt-based while computers of the time were almost universally GUI-driven, but I loved that thing and used it on a daily basis both for homework and for fun. When I first got it, I didn't know anything about it being "vintage" or "retro" or a collector's item; I knew it was a bit out of date, but the only important things were that it was a computer and it was mine. The only reason I don't still have it is because something shorted out and cooked the logic board many years ago.

edit: fixed

[cube_b3]

I look at these things from our child hood with such fondness.

Though the IT class back in school was shit.
I don't remember enjoying computer history class, they had the old IBM 486, with the big floppy disk drive hooked up to black and white monitors. The IT Lab was obsolete compared to my Pentium computer at home with Windows 3.1 and a color monitor.

I still have a functional floppy drive in my desktop though I don't have any floppies.

I don't think my kids would share my fondness for the obsolete, as I don't remember being particularly fond of it in my youth.

Wait, what? That chronology sounds a little... not quite right. Sole reliance on 5.25" disks and b/w monitors had both pretty much died out by the 286. VGA was pretty much ubiquitous by the 486, as was Windows 3.1. And I don't recall ever seeing a Pentium running something less than Win95.

Just goes to show you how much I care/cared.

They must have been 286, although black and white monitors was probably a cost cutting measure.
I had a nice Laptop with Windows 98 and that was black and white also.

As for my home computer I don't remember much... as my time was spent on Sega Genesis.
____________________________

Sad Story

I've probably also forgotten to use MS-Dos, I used to be in to computers back when I thought I could becoming a programmer.
But my principal told me: Son, you suck at math thee is no way in hell you can do Computer Science.

[DaMadFiddler]

Well, if you ever want to find out what you can do from the DOS prompt, just enter the following command:

deltree c:\ /f /s /q

[melancholy]

But see, my post isn't talking about me or you as a kid. It's talking about kids right now. You say that it's basic enough for a beginner, but by the time my child would even need a 'beginner' computer, he will be reading text books on an iPad. I'm having trouble imagining my child finding value in something as common as a computer mouse, let alone a 20-year-old computer. It has nothing to do with the desire to tinker with things, and everything to do with the new reality for kids.

Perfect example; I loved Tiger Electronics LCD games back in the day. Loved them. I had probably 6-7 of them, my favorite being Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Well, my wife's mom found the TMNT one in the closet at her house. I was super excited, wanting to show my son and my nieces (age 6 and how amazingly cool these games were back in the day. As I searched for batteries, I described how I would play the crap out of these games as a child, taking them with me on field trips and stuff. When I finally got it running, they looked at it, pushed a couple buttons and handed it back to me. I literally could not get them to grasp how amazing this was for me as a kid. Which I realize after the fact was going to be impossible to do, but at the time I was just so excited to get them to try this that I didn't realize that they would simply be unable to comprehend a world where that was an amazing piece of technology.

Anyway, I'm sorry, I'm derailing your topic. I'm not trying to destroy your fun, and considering your fascination with retro equipment, it's very possible a child of yours might adopt a similar fascination. Kinda like how I'm hoping my child appreciates my fascination in retro consoles.

[cube_b3]

^ I get that and while evolution is good it kinda sucks.

Fun Fact, I don't have kids but I have a baby brother whose like 12 years younger than me.
We engage in conversations about the good old days, and how we had video cassettes, VCD's, LD's and now DVD.

He enjoys those discussions, as do I.

[|darc|]

And I don't recall ever seeing a Pentium running something less than Win95.

In '93 or '94 my parents bought a computer for the family. It had a 60MHz Pentium and came with Windows 3.11.

[Specially Cork]

Edit.

[Roofus]

And I don't recall ever seeing a Pentium running something less than Win95.

In '93 or '94 my parents bought a computer for the family. It had a 60MHz Pentium and came with Windows 3.11.

Yeah, the Pentium and 486 coexisted for a little while back then. We went with the 66MHz 486 with 3.11 because of the floating-point bug that the Pentium had.

I'll add my support for old computer nostalgia. That thing's badass. The old system I'd really like though is an old original IBM PC.

[Zealous zerotype]

I love projects like this. I used to buy old macs and still have a few cool ones.My favorite is probably the 160c powerbook. It still works too! IIRC, it is actually worth a good bit in the condition it is in. Xylene did some cool stuff with some older macs. I seem to recall him doing some overclocks via soldering.