As I dont remember

This forum is for discussion pertaining to homebrew and indie software for the Dreamcast, such as homebrew games, emulators/interpreters, and other homebrew software/applications. Porting requests and developmental ideas are not to be made here; you can make those here. If you need any help burning discs for homebrew software, this is the place to ask as well.
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Post by Nico0020 » Mon Sep 25, 2006 5:44 pm

What became of the situatin with retro-sonic? Is it not allowed here or not being worked on anymore. I found the site with dead links to files. I really did want to try this but every disk i burnt (only had 2 left) turned out to be coasters. a n00bish topic yes, but we all have them from time to time.
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Post by Christuserloeser » Mon Sep 25, 2006 6:59 pm

I'll pm you a link for the download in a minute. It works great and is one of the most promising things happening for Dreamcast since Beats of Rage.

It is not exactly tolerated to be shared here because it is using WinCE, though the *.dll libraries itself are free and other downloads like GypPlay LSE or QuakeDC have them included too.


The original discussion is located here along with loads of opinions/info on the WinCE 'problem':
http://www.dcemulation.org/phpBB/viewto ... 2&start=60
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Post by Skynet » Mon Sep 25, 2006 10:25 pm

Was a PC version ever released? As said in previous topics, my DC doesn't get much use any more.
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Post by Christuserloeser » Mon Sep 25, 2006 10:36 pm

Yeah, but all the download links at the official page do not work anymore and I didn't download the PC version when it still was available >_<
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Post by Skynet » Mon Sep 25, 2006 11:23 pm

Oh :( Does anyone else have a copy of it?
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Post by Segata Sanshiro » Tue Sep 26, 2006 3:05 am

I respect and defend the idea of the scene being all legal and all, but i have noticed that the other DC scenes (Spanish, French, German, Russian) that are not as anal about legality have made incredible progress in homebrew, emulation, ports, modding, apps, etc. I have almost all of my DC games original and continue to buy every commercial release that comes out, but sometimes i get a little annoyed by the whole "oh, this piece of software isn't legal" so a great project suddenly turns into a forbidden fruit... on a console that SEGA doesn't give a shit about. And the funny thing is that most developers and DC fans are visiting the "other" scenes and forums and enjoying them while continue with the hypocrisy here.. and I'm not talking about warez, but about homebrew development.

Sorry if i offended anyone, I'm just a member that loves his DC and the scene... just need to say what i think!
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Post by Nico0020 » Tue Sep 26, 2006 2:28 pm

ive felt teh same way about it for about the past year or so.
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Post by antidot » Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:45 pm

This is a scene based on barely legal, "I don't see what I don't want to" crap. We all know that emulators are used for commercial hardware, the screenshots show that. Frankly, the FF games wouldn't be rare if we all owned them. Who are we kidding. I can see why it isn't exactlly hosted here, but I still love it.
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Post by OneThirty8 » Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:40 am

antidot wrote:This is a scene based on barely legal, "I don't see what I don't want to" crap. We all know that emulators are used for commercial hardware
I assume that you mean commercial software, Yeah, downloading and using ROMS of commercial games is not legal. Downloading and using a piece of free software designed to emulate another system, on the other hand, is perfectly legal. It is possible to use such emulators for non-commercial ROMS. In fact, it is done rather frequently. DCEvo has images of emulators bundled with public-domain roms, and that is perfectly legal. It's like using Wine under Linux to run your favorite Windows apps. If you go and download warez to run under Wine, that's not legal, but it's possible to also legally obtain software designed for Windows and use it under Wine. Furthermore, there is a lot of software released for the Dreamcast that has nothing to do with emulation. The scene isn't based on "barely legal" anything. It's based on homebrew development on a videogame console. Many of these programs are ports of emulators. Many others are ports of games, multimedia applications, and there are also projects designed from scratch for the console. These are all completely legal, provided that they were not made with a Katana or WinCE development kit.
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Post by Christuserloeser » Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:59 am

Since RetroSonic is made with the WinCE dev kit, it is not as legal as a KOS release, which is why no one is hosting or supporting it. Yet we got a lot of apps/emus/ports that were made with WinCE from the early days but these are hosted on about any Dreamcast site.

I am not saying that we should remove these releases, I am saying that we should support RetroSonic for it beeing such a fantastic and professional release that would enable everyone to create their own Sonic games for Dreamcast - RetroSonic deserves at least the same support that BoR gets too.
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Post by emptythought » Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:28 am

I am not saying that we should remove these releases, I am saying that we should support RetroSonic for it beeing such a fantastic and professional release that would enable everyone to create their own Sonic games for Dreamcast - RetroSonic deserves at least the same support that BoR gets too.
It's now 5 years into the scene and we at Consolevision no longer hosts WinCE or Katana based programs. It's not worth the risk of getting a angry email from Sega or Microsoft even if the chance of getting one is slim and none.
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Post by Sweater Fish » Fri Sep 29, 2006 11:01 am

OneThirty8 wrote:I assume that you mean commercial software, Yeah, downloading and using ROMS of commercial games is not legal. Downloading and using a piece of free software designed to emulate another system, on the other hand, is perfectly legal. It is possible to use such emulators for non-commercial ROMS. In fact, it is done rather frequently.
Depends on your definition of "frequently," I guess. If you mean .01% of the time, then I guess you might be right. Sounds to me like you're just not seeing what you don't want to see.

I think that the over-emphasis on strict legality in this scene got way out of hand a few years ago and it was happening just about as the number of people in the scene was shrinking so there wasn't really enough people anymore to challenge it and set things back on a more sane balance.

I mean, what does fackue even mean when he says it's not worth risking an angry e-mail from Sega or Microsoft? It most certainly is worth ricking an angry e-mail. We're talking about one of the coolest projects on the Dreamcast in years versus a freaking piddly cease and desist e-mail that we all agree won't even come anyway. Priorities are askew.


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Post by Darksaviour69 » Fri Sep 29, 2006 11:11 am

i think its better over to stay legal, you are taken more seriously that way, + there are tonnes of sites that support the Illegal dreamcast scene. the retro-sonic release was only a demo of what was to come in the future, the final version will use not wince at all... if its still being work on (which i hope it is)
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Post by emptythought » Fri Sep 29, 2006 1:26 pm

what does fackue even mean when he says it's not worth risking an angry e-mail from Sega or Microsoft? It most certainly is worth ricking an angry e-mail. We're talking about one of the coolest projects on the Dreamcast in years versus a freaking piddly cease and desist e-mail that we all agree won't even come anyway. Priorities are askew.
I don't feel like getting in a "argument" about this so here's a quote from APE:
<APE> because its A)morally wrong and B)opens you to a lawsuit
<APE> unless CV is hosted in sweden
<APE> well
<APE> even if it was hosted in sweden
<APE> the dc scene doesnt look kindly upon warez
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Post by Segata Sanshiro » Fri Sep 29, 2006 1:31 pm

Instead of discussing the legality of retro Sonic, we can use our energy to encourage the developer to continue working on it... i read the whole story, he has lost interest a couple of times during the long dev cycle and i believe we can show him the community interest isn RS!!!

Image

Image

Image

Also it would be a shame to lose such a nice piece of software, similar to game maker in quality, but especially dedicated to RS!!!! This would be the greatest contribution to the scene since BOR

Image

Image

Greatness!!

Image
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Post by Deth2k7 » Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:51 pm

I would like to see a WinCE free version.This game has huge potential.We should support the creator of this to remove the WinCE libraries.
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Post by Christuserloeser » Fri Sep 29, 2006 9:22 pm

Deth2k7 wrote:I would like to see a WinCE free version.This game has huge potential.We should support the creator of this to remove the WinCE libraries.
So would we all! Oh, I would love a KOS version! but at the same time we are to blind to see that this is not an option here!

He must have been working for years on this release! and all we are saying "F*ck you, it's using WinCE. Go home and take your illegal crap that I haven't even played with you." :x

Let's go back and read what someone who knows its stuff wrote about RetroSonic and the work Taxman must have spent on this:
BlackAura wrote:
DcSteve wrote:There must be homebrew (legal) libs that match or better the quality of those wince libs that someone can easily recompile with. (when the source is released)
Half right. It wouldn't be a simple recompile. It would be a completely separate port, the hardest part of which would be the renderer.
BlackAura wrote:It sounds like he wrote a hardware-based renderer for the Dreamcast version, which would rule out the WinCE port being a piece of cake. That must have been a substantial bit of work, in fact,
Read his original posts here.

If anyone of you followed the two years of work BlackAura spent on his hardware video renderer for GenesisPlusDC, then you'll see what his words actually mean.


And all this talk about WinCE libs (which are free as you might remember) is funny because we're talking about a Sonic engine - with Sonic characters and Sonic stages and Sonic logos and Sonic music and Sonic sound effects and Sonic game play. - What exactly was the problem with WinCE again ?

Segata Sanshiro wrote:Instead of discussing the legality of retro Sonic, we can use our energy to encourage the developer to continue working on it...
Exactly. At DCEvolution I spent the last year since the NES DEP release actually more time discussing legalitites of past and future projects with MetaFox then actually working on a release. I really don't see much of a point to that - or much of a problem with a free homebrew game that's basicly a fan fiction / fan art type of thing.

I always dreamt of a real Sonic remake. And now it comes for Dreamcast and it is not a game, it is an engine for us all to play with, but all we do is complaining. To me that's really dissapointing. :(
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Post by OneThirty8 » Fri Sep 29, 2006 9:23 pm

Sweater Fish wrote:Priorities are askew.
I agree. Your priorities are askew. Especially these days, there's absolutely no need to use the official development kits. KOS is capable of doing just about anything you want to do, especially when one considers the number of addon libraries that there are for it. We should be encouraging use of KOS rather than saying, "hey, this is a cool game so screw legality." Legaility is important. So are morals. My morals say that we shouldn't be encouraging new WinCE apps when such a good alternative is freely available.
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Post by Christuserloeser » Fri Sep 29, 2006 9:37 pm

OneThirty8 wrote:My morals say that we shouldn't be encouraging new WinCE apps when such a good alternative is freely available.
That is perfectly right, but again, I don't see the good alternative for RetroSonic. It's more than likely impossible to rewrite the thing in less then a year of very hard work.
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Post by melancholy » Fri Sep 29, 2006 11:25 pm

This has nothing to do with what the content is. Yeah, we get it, it's Sonic, that's awesome. But it's illegal. If I would put cocaine in a pixie stick wrapper, it doesn't make the cocaine legal. Sure the wrapper implies candy, but the core is still the main problem.
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