An open apology and admission of guilt

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Post by Sweater Fish » Sat Sep 23, 2006 6:06 pm

Good god, that must have been incredibly hard.

From my own experience, I know how small lies to cover over what you expect to be a temporary situation can escalate and get out of hand especially when the inital situation only gets worse instead of better like you'd hoped. So I can't say I blame you for any of that. And I respect you a lot for the guts it took to come clean after all this time. I don't know if I would have been able to do that myself if I'd been in your situation.

One the other hand, I don't really understand why some people seem to have some kind of grudge against you over it. Not being able to trust you anymore is one thing and I can understand that, but to actually be angry with you or offended somehow, well that seems as immature to me as the lies you told in the first place, to be honest.

I also don't think there's any need for you to constantly berate yourself and tell us that you're a jerk and a horrible person. Contrition soon becomes obsequiousness. And what are we afterall? Catholics? You just made a mistake. A big one, it's true, but you came clean and did the right thing. I dare say you're no more of a damnable sinner than any of the rest of us here; it's just that your admirable ambition put you in a position where your all-too-common lack of ability to follow through created a bad situation.


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Post by kingbuzzo » Sat Sep 23, 2006 6:55 pm

Point is, metafox had our trust in a many projects that we worked hard for.

Apologies are nice, and will eventually be accepted by everyone with time, but right now there are more questions to answer.

Many of us put in so many long hours of our free time to push petitions, and now we fear that he never even sent them out if this is the kind of route he likes to take to "solve" problems.

Metafox, we are still waiting for an answer.

Are we right in assuming that you never sent out the signed petitions we sent you?

as you can see here, people are getting quite impatient.
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Post by Nico0020 » Sat Sep 23, 2006 7:11 pm

Point is, metafox had our trust in a many projects that we worked hard for.

Apologies are nice, and will eventually be accepted by everyone with time, but right now there are more questions to answer.

Many of us put in so many long hours of our free time to push petitions, and now we fear that he never even sent them out if this is the kind of route he likes to take to "solve" problems.

Metafox, we are still waiting for an answer.

Are we right in assuming that you never sent out the signed petitions we sent you?

as you can see here, people are getting quite impatient.
I got my refund today, or schedualed Paypal refund. thats cool and all, either way like i said i odnt care about my money too much.

but kingbuzzo does make a very good point that got me thinking about that. I got lots of my friends to sign and send out the petitions. I printed them myself and had my local gamestore put em on display. If they were never shipped THAT will piss me off.
*The Cadillac of signatures*
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Post by goatdan » Sat Sep 23, 2006 7:56 pm

I'm pretty flored right now, however I'll fully admit that I don't see what else Meta can do at this point to make things better with everyone. It takes a big man to say what he did and to make things right. It sounds like he is really doing both.

I've been in similiar situations to what caused all of this, and I'm sure that if we all look at ourselves, most of us have been. What Meta did in the circumstances is human nature when you aren't quite sure what to do.

He could have never admitted it and just sent out the magazines. No one would have known the better, and everyone would be happy for a closure to the ordeal. It looks like the magazines will be sent soon, and if that's the case, I think that what Meta did here is a very noble thing to have done.

As for him personally, I think that he has been an asset to the Dreamcast community. GOAT Store Publishing wouldn't have published Inhabitants, Maqiupai, GOAT Games (soon!) or about four other projects without his involvement. ANd he never asked us for anything in return. I've relied on him to answer questions and know things that are going on, and he has done so for me every time without fail. He has tirelessly supported the Dreamcast, and if you look at things that he spent his own money on helping to do without any chance of getting repaid like the various DreamCons, you know that he is very serious about doing whatever he can to help the Dreamcast. From having met him in person and having dealt with him for the last two or three years, I am certain that this was a one-time ordeal that will not be repeated.

As long as everything gets repaid properly, I will definitely hold no ill will toward him, and I hope that I can continue to have his support with our future projects. While this was definitely a large mess up, I know that he has done so much for the community as a whole that this is a minor setback, and hopefully we can all learn from it and move on in the future.
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Post by MetaFox » Sat Sep 23, 2006 8:54 pm

kingbuzzo wrote:Many of us put in so many long hours of our free time to push petitions, and now we fear that he never even sent them out if this is the kind of route he likes to take to "solve" problems.
If you'll remember, I did at least one of those petitions myself. I set up the page on Dreamcast-Scene. I also took all of the petitions that were still active with me to two out of three DreamCons. I've spent many long hours of my free time on these petitions as well, so I wouldn't just waste all that energy by not sending them out. I posted on the DCS forums about it. I understand that I'm not to be trusted anymore, so I've asked for you to become head of DCS America rather than me, and I'm going to be sending you a package of petitions (if there are any in my PO Box) as well as the discs that I owe you on Monday.
goatdan wrote:It looks like the magazines will be sent soon, and if that's the case, I think that what Meta did here is a very noble thing to have done.
Yes, I'm still aiming for my October deadline for the magazines.
goatdan wrote:From having met him in person and having dealt with him for the last two or three years, I am certain that this was a one-time ordeal that will not be repeated.
Oh, believe me, it won't. No one is more sick over this whole thing than me. I'm really sick over this whole thing - so much that I can't sleep, and that I constantly feel like I'm going to throw up. I've been a mess for about a week, even before I came clean. I never did intend to scam anyone, I just found myself in a sticky situation, and chose the wrong (really rotten) path.
goatdan wrote:As long as everything gets repaid properly, I will definitely hold no ill will toward him, and I hope that I can continue to have his support with our future projects. While this was definitely a large mess up, I know that he has done so much for the community as a whole that this is a minor setback, and hopefully we can all learn from it and move on in the future.
I'm really glad to hear that. I'll still support everyone in every way that I can.
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Post by Sir Savant » Sun Sep 24, 2006 7:54 am

I am in shock, but whatever. It was just a magazine anyways, and we did it to support the scene. So if the magazine still comes out, then it is all good.
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Post by curt_grymala » Sun Sep 24, 2006 10:05 am

I have remained silent over the last few days about this situation, because I honestly don't know what I should say. Just as Dan said, I am absolutely floored by this turn of events. I still am not quite sure what I should say, but, being that I am someone that seems to be considered a leader in this community, I feel that I at least need to say something.

I am still somewhat hurt and betrayed by this whole situation. I had no personal stake in the magazine whatsoever, as I did not order a copy because of financial concerns (I realize that the cost, to most of you is piddly, but for a guy with three kids living paycheck to paycheck, it can make a big difference). However, I did defend MetaFox many times on this board when people began to criticize him, and accuse him of doing exactly what it turned out he did.

However, I also still believe that MetaFox is a good guy, and that he has contributed quite a bit to the community. As Dan mentioned, MetaFox has contributed a great deal of his own money to community causes. He paid for all of our tables at the ECGX DreamCon last year. He paid for all of our tables at the MagFest last year. He paid his own way to the Midwest Gaming Classic (airfare and all) just to exhibit another DreamCon in the midwest, and attempt to bring new blood into the community. He funded quite a bit of the materials for the various DreamCons, including t-shirts for the first DreamCon, banners for all sites represented at the DreamCons, and much more.

In addition to financial contributions, he has given us quite a bit of nice code, in the form of games, emulators and other various tidbits. He has organized and executed three DreamOn competitions that have brought some great new games into the community.

Unfortunately, his latest actions (actually, his final willingness to come clean about his actions) have left a huge blemish on his record. In the past, he had been known as somewhat of a flaky guy that made a lot of promises and only finished about half of the things he had begun. He is now marked with a big scarlet letter labeling him as a defrauder.

I am certain that, given time, MetaFox will find a way to make up for the mistakes he has made, and re-ingratiate himself in the hearts of most of the community. However, I am also certain that it will take a long time, if ever, for those of us in the community to fully trust him.

I hope that MetaFox has learned a lesson from all of this. Things in life can get difficult (Lord knows that I know all about that, as I am in a very delicate situation right now). However, the money that was sent to him for the magazine was not his to spend, whether he needed it or not.

In addition, it is entirely possible (and way too easy, it seems) to take on way too much in life. MetaFox really needs to step back and re-evaluate all of the things he has on his plate. I have personally stepped back from quite a few of the community projects with which I was involved, simply because I had taken on too much, and I had too much going on in my personal life. This is a very important thing to do. If you don't, then you end up in the position MetaFox put himself in.

It's very easy for all of us to stand here and place blame. However, it is not easy for any of us to honestly say what we would have done in his position. Anyone who says they would never do anything like what he did has simply never been in dire enough straits. We all have our own breaking points, and it's obvious that MetaFox hit his.

The truly unfortunate thing about it is that he did not reach out for help in the community, when he surely would have got it. Instead, he covered things up, and continued to weave a very intricate web of lies.

It will take a while for MetaFox to get back into the swing of things, if he ever does. I know that he is planning on taking some time off from the community, which may be very good for him.

As a community, we should all take a look at the projects on which he was working, and see what we can do to improve upon those ideas, and make them bigger and better than they ever have been.
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Post by emptythought » Sun Sep 24, 2006 11:13 am

I feel like I need to say something here but no words come to mind. I agree with every word curt has spoken though.
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Post by JohnnyB » Sun Sep 24, 2006 6:26 pm

Your admission of guilt holds very little weight when you were basically caught in a lie. You knew what you were doing all along and your plea for compassion is ridiculously contrived and no doubt riddled with falsehoods. People get jail time for less, so if you have any sense you'll disappear.
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Post by Wagh » Sun Sep 24, 2006 7:03 pm

Yeah thats what I don't understand. a lot of people are congradulating him for admitting it. Well sure he admitted it only after being caught in tons of lies.
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Post by OneThirty8 » Mon Sep 25, 2006 2:38 am

curt_grymala wrote:It's very easy for all of us to stand here and place blame. However, it is not easy for any of us to honestly say what we would have done in his position. Anyone who says they would never do anything like what he did has simply never been in dire enough straits. We all have our own breaking points, and it's obvious that MetaFox hit his.

The truly unfortunate thing about it is that he did not reach out for help in the community, when he surely would have got it. Instead, he covered things up, and continued to weave a very intricate web of lies.
This is why I'm personally having a hard time figuring out how I feel here myself. I also didn't have any money invested, but I also thought of MetaFox as an upright-standing member of our community. I think that for the most part this has been true. I also don't know what I'd do in his shoes, but what I do know is that if I saw a friend going through what he was going through, I wouldn't stand by and let him do what MetaFox did. I would hope that if I found myself in his shoes, that I wouldn't make the choices he did. He was very wrong. Maybe he only admitted it because he finally saw that there was no way out, but I believe that when he first took money for pre-orders, he had every intention of filling the orders. Some things happened, and his life started to unravel. I think that he said to himself, "well, I have this money that people paid me for something that I haven't released yet... They'll understand if it comes out a little bit late--I can cite some glitch, extra hours at work, anything--and I'll still make good on it." That was the wrong thing to do. He knows it, but he probably felt that he couldn't come out and say, "yeah, I spent the money." He had his reputation at stake. So, instead, he lied. And he kept lying, hoping to buy himself some more time. In the end, yeah, he pissed off a whole bunch of people, but the biggest damage he did was to himself. I imagine that he's telling the truth when he says it's eating him up inside, that he can't sleep at night, and that he is sorry. This community means a lot to him. All of the positive things he did in the past can stand as evidence. I think that our opinion of him means a lot, and that is now tarnished, and in many cases destroyed. He let down the scene that he holds very dear. He has to live with that. He'll probably never quite regain the level of trust he once had, and that's a shame because I know that he has a strong moral code based on his past words and deeds. It was incredibly fucked up to do what he did, but he's a human being--and I believe at the end of the day he'll prove to be a good one--and he just got caught up in something that he desperately wanted to find a way out of. Good people do bad things sometimes. People have every right to be furious about this, but I truly believe that MetaFox didn't want to hurt people, and that's why he lied to buy himself the time to come through in the end.
JohnnyB wrote:People get jail time for less, so if you have any sense you'll disappear.
As fucked up as his actions were, that's the kind of comment that really isn't needed. I think he has learned a lesson from this. I think he needs to take some time away from here to deal with his personal life, maybe even get some psychiatric counselling to deal with the guilt, depression, and whatever else is related to this, whether those things are the cause or the result of these events, but I think that in the end, he's going to want to come back here, and there are those of us who hope that he does return and continue to be a valuable contributor to the community when he has his life sorted out.
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Post by cube_b3 » Mon Sep 25, 2006 3:09 am

It is nice that some people are balancing out the good fox with the bad fox and it is evident that the bad fox holds little weight in contrast to your good.

I read that a lot of people are critically bashing you, who did not even order the magazine Mickey just remember that a lot of people hated you anyway for beeing so strict about the rules etc and now have found the perfect way to badh you I know this because I used to be one of them.

However it was not for Metafox I would still be a noob. Mickey helped me evolve into a more mature poster and for that I am greatful. I for one will continue to be on your side however I would have to PM and apologize to Gameoholic whom I was very rude to when he said you are a fraud.

Take care old friend
take your time fixing the personal problems then return to DCS I know it may seem like the doors are closed but they will open again with time.

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Post by Darksaviour69 » Mon Sep 25, 2006 5:44 am

wow, what a fucked up weekend!

I don't want to repeat what has been said, but i agree with OneThirty8 and Curt. I feel hurt, but i will get over it.

I going to judge meta for all his actions. The dreamcast scene would not be what it is today without meta. Personally I put meta up there with Dan Potter in the Dreamcast scene hall of fame/Hero. This action has knock him down a few pegs.

he made one mistake, but it snowballed, shit happens. And you know what, if i'm going to be competely honest, i would have done the same in his poistion. Lets remember he was borrowing the money, he was not going to keep/steal it (not that it makes it ok, but is a lesser crime), so It was never the "scam" that people kept posting it was. So currently meta has refunded everyone (I have been offered my $13 back, but i'm not sure i going to take it), and send the mag out for free, i think that is enough to pay for his crime (once we actually get the mag). For me if i get the mag all sins are forgiven ( btw Sweater Fish, I am Catholic, and my religion is based on forgiving people ;) )

I think that meta has hurt himself than the dcscene, really no-one else was going to be a make a mag. (meta is the only one that has got it past the "a dc mag would be cool" stage)

overall

the good meta has done for the scene:+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
the bad meta has done for the scene: -
thats how i see it.

I still really hope that this does not mean the end of DreamOn mag, as I would love there to be many issues.

I can also comfirm the meta has asked to be removed from staff from dcemu.co.uk, but so far we have declined to do so.

Also i would agree with OneThirty8 and Curt, if meta had explained his position from the start 90% would have been fine and would have understood it, and Isure some of use would have been willing to help money wise.

(sorry if the post is all over the place, i hate writting big posts)
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Post by Specially Cork » Mon Sep 25, 2006 6:57 am

Darksaviour69 wrote:he made one mistake, but it snowballed, shit happens. And you know what, if i'm going to be competely honest, i would have done the same in his poistion. Lets remember he was borrowing the money, he was not going to keep/steal it (not that it makes it ok, but is a lesser crime), so It was never the "scam" that people kept posting it was.
He didnt make 1 mistake, he made several. The biggest problem for people here isn't the fact he used the money in a desperate situation, its the way he continually lied about it for months to cover it up, and the way he flamed people when others questioned how truthful he was being.

People put their trust in Meta after everything he had done for this scene, and he didn't return that trust. For many, that is far worse than what he actually did with the money. People are angry because they feel betrayed, not because they temporarily lost a few dollars.
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Post by Darksaviour69 » Mon Sep 25, 2006 7:52 am

well I said snowballed (as in one mistake lead to those action). most (flamed posts) were saying that it all was a scam for money, which it was not, so i can understand why it got pissed. I still think a lot (not all) of the post directed at meta before all this were out of line, and rude. I think a lot of trouble (and pressure) was made by some people that posted negitive comments about the mag that had not paid for the mag and/or had no involvement with the mag.

Yes, your right, the lie that he posted the mags was the worse thing he did, but , (i feel) the ones the cried "scam" have not been proven right.
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Post by jstookey » Mon Sep 25, 2006 9:15 am

Hello,

I'm a lurker of these forums. I had placed an order for the magazine, and I was very suprised to get a PayPal refund this weekend. I don't know a whole lot about MetaFox, except that when I see his name I know that he has done a lot of good for this community, and I certainly appreciate the contributions that he has made.

I consider myself to be a perfectly upstanding citizen, but I understand where MetaFox is coming from. I've been there before (although luckily it never went as far as it did in this situation). There was a beta testing opportunity, where someone was going to send me toys to play with and I promised to do some beta testing. First, I was "too busy" to try the actual beta testing. Then, when I finally got started, it involved swapping a microchip, which I didn't have any experience doing, and in the process I broke the chip. I can just remember, how my face turned bright red, and for some reason was filled with awful guilt that I didn't do right by this guy, when he had worked hard to send me the stuff. Here I had made a promise, and I totally bailed on the guy when he was depending on my to get his product out. My own self image made it hard for me to believe that I had behaved in such bad form, and I can remember sweating profusely while writing emails back to the guy, and having a strong desire to write anything that would cover up my own faults in the situation. I learned an important lesson, and for me that lesson was that I cannot make light of making promises to people unless I am sure that I will feel strongly committed to make good on it long after after making the promise.

It was his generosity that is at the root of it, but it got twisted along the way. Anyway MetaFox, I know that you're feeling really bad about this, and I think that the important thing about it is that you have a long life ahead of you, where you will do a lot of good for people. This experience has highlighted weakness that you didn't realize that you had, and now that you know that you will be much better equipped to deal with situations in the future. It's called growing, which is never an easy thing to go through.
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Post by Juan » Mon Sep 25, 2006 10:50 am

Darksaviour69 wrote:I think a lot of trouble (and pressure) was made by some people that posted negitive comments about the mag that had not paid for the mag and/or had no involvement with the mag.
You think?
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Post by goatdan » Mon Sep 25, 2006 3:02 pm

For the people wondering why people are happy that he has owned up to it, it's because he really could've just taken off with everyone's money and not ever been seen again. Instead, he has owned up to it and is trying to make good on it. A real slimeball would've just walked away and left the mess how it was. Could Meta have done that? Absolutely. The fact that he chose to admit his guilt and try to make right on it means a lot.

I do understand why people are very angry with him over it. He did a bad thing. But I hope that it doesn't mean that he won't eventually be forgiven for it, and I hope that this whole thing doesn't split the community because that would be stupid.
JohnnyB wrote:People get jail time for less, so if you have any sense you'll disappear.
I can guarantee he wouldn't get jail time for this. Since he has repaid the money, (unless it all bounces and then he disappears, which I don't forsee happening), the law wouldn't even see this as a crime. You can lie under the law, so long as you aren't under oath.
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Post by shadowprophet » Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:41 am

I dont know what to say, BUt in the long run isnt friendship worth more then the price of a magizine. In the past He has proven to be a trustworthy person, and hes been a good friend. I realize the mistake made wasnt so small. But on each individual I ask you. was it such a large mistake either?

I say that if what money you lost went to help someone in a time of crisis. there was never money better spent.

But maybe im the only one that thinks that way :?:
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or was it money tits, money money ass?
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Post by Strapping Scherzo » Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:16 pm

I've been pretty silent during this ordeal mostly because I didn't order the mag. I'm just curious. How much total money are we talking here?

I feel if it was pretty much a life or death situation involving himself or someone else that he cares for, then what could he have done? What anyone would have done. Now if it's a situation where he wanted to avoid borrowing money from a relative or avoid maxing out his credit cards, that's different. This money should have been last resort.

We can only speculate at the actual specifics. Maybe he had the mag money in his personal checking account which made it too easy to take a little here and there, promising himself to make up for it the next time extra money came around but never did.

I'm still fine with MetaFox and would trust him since he has never wronged me personally. Considering his track record for giving to and helping the DC community, this should, in time, be forgiven.
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