Retro Sonic Engine For Dreamcast

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Post by Quzar » Tue Jul 11, 2006 3:24 pm

BlueCrab wrote:
Quzar wrote:the download links should be removed
I have to say that I agree. Whether or not this "hurts anybody" can be debated, and since it is using libraries ripped from a game (and that the authors have no legal right to distribute), the entire thing is illegal. While this may be an interesting project, I think that until it is rewritten with KOS, the downloads should NOT be linked to.

If I had moderator powers in this forum, I would take the links away.
I removed the links from dcemu.co.uk, which this linked to, so i think that's that for now at least.
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Post by Sweater Fish » Tue Jul 11, 2006 7:19 pm

Win CE?!

Stone him! Stone him!

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Post by DcSteve » Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:47 pm

somebody made a youtube vid of this for dreamcast. Note that its only blinking cause of the camera. The gameplay is super smooth and u can play as knunkles as well with all the moves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1At2JCqV ... rch=Taxman
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Post by Christuserloeser » Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:56 am

Sweater Fish wrote:Win CE?!

Stone him! Stone him!

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ROTFL !
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Post by jessman » Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:48 pm

I manged to snag the CD-Image before it was taken down, but I just can't get the damn thing to burn properly! I tried mounting it with Daemon Tools and I got an error. I tried burning it with Alcohol 120% but the buring percentage ends up going past 2500% and won't stop until I shut off my computer. How am I supposed to get this working?
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Post by DcSteve » Wed Jul 12, 2006 3:24 pm

NERO
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Post by Christuserloeser » Wed Jul 12, 2006 3:27 pm

I think I could get it uploaded as CDI to DCEvolution.net, no promises though.

I would prefer a KOS version a lot, but as long as there's no KOS version however, I don't see a problem in hosting this. Anyone ever noticed that QuakeDC uses WinCE too ? We will be hosting that too.

Also we're talking about a Sonic engine, a game that faithfully reproduces Sonic The Hedgehog by SEGA. - Like Beats of Rage and it's mods are reproducing Final Fight, Sailor Moon, Battletoads, etc.


I REALLY hope this is easy to convert to KOS, but reading these statements again, I highly doubt it:
BlackAura wrote:
DcSteve wrote:There must be homebrew (legal) libs that match or better the quality of those wince libs that someone can easily recompile with. (when the source is released)
Half right. It wouldn't be a simple recompile. It would be a completely separate port, the hardest part of which would be the renderer.

[...]

It sounds like he wrote a hardware-based renderer for the Dreamcast version, which would rule out the WinCE port being a piece of cake. That must have been a substantial bit of work, in fact,
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Post by henzenmann » Wed Jul 12, 2006 5:01 pm

Funny how everybody is concerned about the legalities of ripping WinCE, but not about ripping Sonic graphics :wink:
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Post by Juan » Wed Jul 12, 2006 5:35 pm

^ LOL. Just call it "a tribute" and it's all good :P
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Post by BlueCrab » Wed Jul 12, 2006 6:00 pm

henzenmann wrote:Funny how everybody is concerned about the legalities of ripping WinCE, but not about ripping Sonic graphics :wink:
WinCE usage is definately illegal, yet one could claim the use of the graphics is protected under fair use.
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Post by Smurph » Wed Jul 12, 2006 7:36 pm

BlueCrab wrote:
henzenmann wrote:Funny how everybody is concerned about the legalities of ripping WinCE, but not about ripping Sonic graphics :wink:
WinCE usage is definately illegal, yet one could claim the use of the graphics is protected under fair use.
Since the WinCE libs were ripped from a game (I think), one could also argue that it's also covered under fair use.
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Post by BlueCrab » Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:00 pm

Smurph wrote:
BlueCrab wrote:
henzenmann wrote:Funny how everybody is concerned about the legalities of ripping WinCE, but not about ripping Sonic graphics :wink:
WinCE usage is definately illegal, yet one could claim the use of the graphics is protected under fair use.
Since the WinCE libs were ripped from a game (I think), one could also argue that it's also covered under fair use.
But, you are required to have a license to use the WinCE development libraries.
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Post by curt_grymala » Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:03 pm

Smurph wrote:
BlueCrab wrote:
henzenmann wrote:Funny how everybody is concerned about the legalities of ripping WinCE, but not about ripping Sonic graphics :wink:
WinCE usage is definately illegal, yet one could claim the use of the graphics is protected under fair use.
Since the WinCE libs were ripped from a game (I think), one could also argue that it's also covered under fair use.
No, one could not. It has been well established that the distribution of the WinCE libs is illegal, period. It's actually legal to develop using the WinCE libs, and it's legal to use a program that needs the WinCE libs. However, in order to use those libs, either you (the end-user) or the distributor has to pay a rather hefty licensing fee in order to use them legally.

That's why things like BoobBoy and GypPlay are still legal. They don't include the illegal libs. They require you to get your own copies of the libs. Just as a lot of emulators require you to get your own copy of the BIOS for those machines.

EDIT - Whoops. BC beat me to the punch.
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Post by mankrip » Thu Jul 13, 2006 3:11 am

Christuserloeser wrote:I would prefer a KOS version a lot, but as long as there's no KOS version however, I don't see a problem in hosting this. Anyone ever noticed that QuakeDC uses WinCE too ? We will be hosting that too.
Well, I would really like to remove QDC and HexQuake from quakedev.dcemulation.org, but the only reason I didn't do it yet is because it has hardware acceleration - which is its only advantage over Makaqu.

To be honest, I should also remove the RADQuake binaries from my website, because reaper never released their source code - the sources he released are not the same used to compile his binaries - and because the license for the last versions violates the GPL. I made those binaries available because I think they are an interesting piece of the Dreamcast homebrew development history; and until about a year ago, they were also important. Anyway, I'll probably remove them the next time my website is updated.
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Post by Christuserloeser » Thu Jul 13, 2006 6:17 am

Fragger wrote:
Christuserloeser wrote:I would prefer a KOS version a lot, but as long as there's no KOS version however, I don't see a problem in hosting this. Anyone ever noticed that QuakeDC uses WinCE too ? We will be hosting that too.
Well, I would really like to remove QDC and HexQuake from quakedev.dcemulation.org, but the only reason I didn't do it yet is because it has hardware acceleration - which is its only advantage over Makaqu.
Yeah, of course as soon as nxMakaqu has hardware acceleration it'll make QuakeDC pretty much obsolete. Still, I don't see no reason not to have both. Just having it for archive purposes alone won't be wrong.

We're working on that QuakeDC image for DCEvolution since 2004 - in fact it's been the reason why I joined DCEvolution in the first place. It's very sad it took so long, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't release it, especially since we've put so much work and time into it.

I mean you have been working on it since way back in 2001 and it just would be a complete waste not to have it available at DCEvo.

I made those binaries available because I think they are an interesting piece of the Dreamcast homebrew development history; and until about a year ago, they were also important.
I would remove them just for the reason it's something that IMR was involved in, but that's just me and it beeing an interesting piece of Dreamcast homebrew history based on your and BlackAura's work would still be a very good reason not to remove it.
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Post by DaMadFiddler » Thu Jul 13, 2006 6:26 am

Christuserloeser wrote:I would remove them just for the reason it's something that IMR was involved in, but that's just me and it beeing an interesting piece of Dreamcast homebrew history based on your and BlackAura's work would still be a very good reason not to remove it.
So you'd take something down because it was created by someone unpleasant, but you *wouldn't* take something down for actually being illegal? :scratch:
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Post by Christuserloeser » Thu Jul 13, 2006 7:00 am

Yeah, I know it's funny :lol: But that's just my opinion (sometimes at least). I am well aware that it doesn't necessarily apply to everyone else. ;) - It's just me and my opinion. :P

Edit: Taken out some thoughts on copyright issues that doesn't really belong here.

I think respect is what's worth a lot, and IMR certainly missed respect for other peoples work.
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Post by Pyrite » Thu Jul 13, 2006 11:31 am

Anyway, it runs at 640x480 looks really blury when played on a TV, I still have Sonic Jam on my Saturn so not missing much, too bad though because it runs really smooth and has a couple of extra gameplay actions.
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Post by DcSteve » Thu Jul 13, 2006 11:39 am

No blurryness on my tv, plays just as well as the original sonics.
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Post by Pyrite » Thu Jul 13, 2006 11:58 am

The originals play on low-res not VGA resolution, bluryness, flickering and no scanlines equals no fun.
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