Genesis Plus/DC

This forum is for discussion pertaining to homebrew and indie software for the Dreamcast, such as homebrew games, emulators/interpreters, and other homebrew software/applications. Porting requests and developmental ideas are not to be made here; you can make those here. If you need any help burning discs for homebrew software, this is the place to ask as well.
BlackAura
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Post by BlackAura » Mon Jul 19, 2004 1:40 am

I do have University work to do, and that's a higher priority. I was on a break when I wrote most of the stuff in the newer versions of GP/DC, but I'm not any more. Doesn't leave a lot of time.

The VDP renderer is still very, very early in development. It runs a lot of games just fine (and very quickly), but there's a lot more to it than that. There are a lot of problems with it, some of which can be fixed, and some of which can not be fixed because of the way the renderer is designed. Most of those problems were design problems, not implementation problems (except the sprite corruption, which is a bug), and I knew what would happen before I started coding it. The design sacrifices a lot of compatability for speed, and now I need to attempt to make it more compatable, and get rid of the graphics glitches.

That actually involves more work than writing it in the first place. The reason there was a sudden burst in development was because writing the thing was actually quite trivial. Getting it working better (while still remaining fast) is going to be the difficult part, just as it was before I tried the hardware accelerated approach. For the original software renderer, gaining speed without sacrificing compatability was the problem. The the hardware renderer, gaining compatability without sacrificing speed is going to be the problem. Both are bloody hard things to do compared to getting it working in the first place.

If anyone else wants to do some work on it, feel free.
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Post by jessman » Mon Jul 19, 2004 2:59 am

jeez, Black Aura. I'm sorry for the usual n00bs and buggers. I'd gladly work on it, but I have VERY minor experience. Maybe someone could pick it up while you're busy or something. I don't know. What I do know is that you and Ian are what's keeping me in these forums. You've both done so much, and I just wanted to say..........thanks.
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Post by BlackAura » Mon Jul 19, 2004 3:45 am

jeez, Ian
Who?

(Looks through thread)

None of the Ians I know posted here yet. :wink:
You've both done so much, and I just wanted to say..........thanks.
No prob.
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Post by Warmtoe » Mon Jul 19, 2004 4:09 am

BlackAura wrote:
jeez, Ian
Who?

(Looks through thread)

None of the Ians I know posted here yet. :wink:
Dude - just change your name to Ian, it'd be quicker in the long-run!

(I'm one of the Ians!)

I am still working on some z80 speedups - progress is being made - it's just slower than you'd like... patience is a card game.
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Post by jessman » Mon Jul 19, 2004 4:34 am

OOPS! TYPO! lol. I'm sorry. I didn't notice my mistake, ha ha ha. Sorry, Black Aura.
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Post by BlackAura » Mon Jul 19, 2004 4:42 am

Dude - just change your name to Ian, it'd be quicker in the long-run!
Nah. My younger brother's an Ian as well. It'd just cause way too much confusion.
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Post by weeperofsouls » Mon Jul 19, 2004 4:44 am

how many devvers here are named ian? there seem to be a few...
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Post by Quzar » Mon Jul 19, 2004 4:46 am

Two that i know of. But there are also other regular forum members named Ian. (ian and DaMadFiddler come to mind)
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Post by DaMadFiddler » Mon Jul 19, 2004 4:52 am

...I'm an Ian. And while I'm not technically a devver, I *AM* involved in other aspects of development projects here (mainly art & music). Funny thing is, my parents named me Ian to be somewhat unique [well, technically, it was also part of a family tradition--the firstborn of every second generation in my dad's family is traditionally named Jack or John...my parents decided to translate it to Ian to be different, since Ian isn't a particularly common name in the United States]. Unfortunately, it backfired--as evidenced by the fact that, up until I got into high school, there were three OTHER Ians in my core classes with me (Ian Salman, Ian Felchlin, and Ian Yanniello...and I'm Ian Walker).

But yes...Fear the Ian. It's a Celtic conspiracy ;)
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Post by Ian Micheal » Mon Jul 19, 2004 5:23 am

For sure fear the Ian. Strange thing is were all Ian's and not Iain as that is more common when i was at school there was lot's of Iains lol.
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Post by Christuserloeser » Mon Jul 19, 2004 6:34 am

"No! I am Ian! ...and my wife is Ian too!" taken from Life of Ian
groundbeef wrote:I am not discrediting all the work done on Dsnes, not by a long shot. I do not think that DSnes .98 is the best Snes emu that is attainable however. As far as the speed issue, Dsnes never really improved past .94...heck maybe even .91. They did a great job with the sound, compatibility, and menus...all except for the fact that it wares the heck out of the motor to load rom names on screen heh.
What exactly are you talking about :o Try playing around with the options, turn sound to mono or off, use PAL 50Hz games instead of US ones etc and you'll get a fully playable speed (with slight frameskip) on all but a few games. I am talking about 80+ to 100 % not 60 - 70 % ...About the ROMlisting: Did you tried ROMLST12 by the kRypT (or Provlst by burnerO) to create a ROMS.LST that'll stop waring of your DCCDMotor ?
speud wrote:i was comparing the advancement of the projects, although dreamsnes is not running every games full speed its still pushing dc limits, the authors did a great job optimizing the emu, and they even re wrote the core in asm to try and gain some speed (which didnt really pay back though).

if they "only" improved the compatibility list over the versions thats probably because they couldnt improve anything else. the version of snes9x that is used in dreamsnes has probably been pushed to its max, and has even been improved. thats obviously not the case with genesis plus dc at the moment.

dreamsnes is a lot closer to a finished snes emu than genesis plus dc (at least the last preview that has been released) is close to a finished genesis emu imho. again thats not a reproach to people who work on genesis plus dc nor a try to belittle their work, actually thats pretty much the contrary.
Hm, I see your point with the ASM core thing but IMO the PVR hardware renderer is far more revolutionary than "just" :o :? code a SNES SH4 core... the C68K is very comparable to the SH4 ASM core too, the sound emulation (even if buggy because of the sync with the VDP frame refreshing) has also been added and wasn't in the original emu too.

DSNES is very great work and pretty finished but GPDC has almost reached the same stage with its preview releases (it even has the same 12kHz sound playback rate - while DSNES had 11khz iirc?) and is still WIP by so many people (Z80 core, VMU support, sound, VDP, menu etc)


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Post by jessman » Mon Jul 19, 2004 10:03 am

ha ha ha. i am getting QUITE uncomfortable now, lol. not many jesses that hang around in forums that i know of.
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Post by speud » Mon Jul 19, 2004 10:25 am

PVR hardware renderer is far more revolutionary than "just" code a SNES SH4 core...
:roll:
GPDC has almost reached the same stage with its preview releases
definitely not, hence the "preview".
(it even has the same 12kHz sound playback rate - while DSNES had 11khz iirc?)
so? what this is supposed to mean? i dont say genesis sound emulation is a peace of cake compared to the snes, but you cant just compare speed and sound on 2 different platforms, that doesnt make much sense.
and is still WIP by so many people (Z80 core, VMU support, sound, VDP, menu etc)
yer, thats what i keep saying, its very good but it misses quite a few stuffs, so its definitely not as near as finished as you said at the begining.
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Post by ethoscapade » Mon Jul 19, 2004 10:53 am

off topic: i apologize...

do PAL games really help DSnes that much? i could never really wrap my mind around exactly how much better a game that refreshed less would perform.. (and they work OK on NTSC TV's/DCs, right?).
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Post by groundbeef » Mon Jul 19, 2004 11:40 am

Did you tried ROMLST12 by the kRypT (or Provlst by burnerO) to create a ROMS.LST that'll stop waring of your DCCDMotor?


For some odd reason ROMLST12 only recognizes 26 out of my 62 roms.

Guess I need to whip out GoodWindows and rename.
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Post by Christuserloeser » Mon Jul 19, 2004 12:23 pm

ethoscapade wrote:off topic: i apologize...

do PAL games really help DSnes that much? i could never really wrap my mind around exactly how much better a game that refreshed less would perform.. (and they work OK on NTSC TV's/DCs, right?).
Okay, I am not sure with this either, as I got most of my games as PAL versions except a very few, but there are games that have been released in Europe that used the 50Hz mode (as all games back then did afaik) and have been localized = I mean the same speed like the 60Hz ones but with 50Hz frame refresh rate, mostly NINTENDO In-House games (Mario etc) and games by European developers = French (Infrogrames etc), British (Rare etc), German (Factor5)

Other EU games (not localized correctly) will run almost 20% slower than the original JP/US games...


The properly localized games I mentioned first will run faster and a bit smoother as their US/JP counterparts with DSNES098 if you play them in 60Hz mode (DSNES Options menu) because DSNES speeds these games up to reach the same framerate a 60Hz game should have displayed.

Games like Donkey Kong Country are made in GB so they'll actually have the same speed as the US/JP versions but will run smoother with DSNES098

Now I am confused by myself. :roll: The easiest would be to check that with DKC1/2/3

Let me know if someone actually checked it :wink:
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Post by Ian Micheal » Mon Jul 19, 2004 12:38 pm

Yeah allways did that with Dsnes much smoother seems faster. worth doing a new test been a while.
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Post by cube323 » Mon Jul 19, 2004 1:27 pm

I'm sorry to interrupt this conversation, but I have a question about Gen Plus.

Will the final version allow you to "theme" the emulator? Last night I burned the test version along with a ton of roms.

I was completely blown away by how fast this emu runs and how well the sound works on certain games. Now I'm REALLY anticipating the final release. Keep up the good work.
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Post by DcSteve » Mon Jul 19, 2004 2:23 pm

is the source out for the latest build of GPDC? My friend wants to take a look at the rewritting and optimizing the vdp rendering..
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Post by doragasu » Mon Jul 19, 2004 3:21 pm

DcSteve wrote:is the source out for the latest build of GPDC? My friend wants to take a look at the rewritting and optimizing the vdp rendering..
Maybe you should ask them to join the team, the more the merrier...
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