FOF is coming today!

This forum is for discussion pertaining to homebrew and indie software for the Dreamcast, such as homebrew games, emulators/interpreters, and other homebrew software/applications. Porting requests and developmental ideas are not to be made here; you can make those here. If you need any help burning discs for homebrew software, this is the place to ask as well.
sjackal
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Post by sjackal » Sat Oct 19, 2002 7:15 pm

for a step editor, look for "xstep"

i've made one dwi file but i haven't tested it yet..
i'm assuming it'll work, though...
just don't use a gap.. use blank steps to synchronize the music and arrows...



ca people: what do you use? vi/emacs/whatever or a step editor?
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Post by Dan Potter » Sun Oct 20, 2002 8:48 pm

sjackal wrote:for a step editor, look for "xstep"
Is that for Windows? or *nix...?
sjackal wrote:i've made one dwi file but i haven't tested it yet..
i'm assuming it'll work, though...
just don't use a gap.. use blank steps to synchronize the music and arrows...
I'm not sure that will fix the problem actually. It depends on why the GAP values are different. If DWI is doing what I think it's doing, it may still be a problem. But I'd be curious to hear from people if that helps...

Also that won't help you with GAP values that are not integer multiples of beats. You'd end up with steps that aren't sync'd right (like the quarter notes showing up as all 16th notes or something).
sjackal wrote:ca people: what do you use? vi/emacs/whatever or a step editor?
We actually have a DC-based editor that works over the dc-load-ip /pc file system. It's the one that's currently disabled in the game itself. It has the potential to be really cool, but at the moment it actually kinda sucks. :) Actually, at the moment, it doesn't even compile! Hasn't compiled since about the end of August. I wrote it into the game like that because it was super easy to hack an editor together from the existing game code, but unless you have a BBA (and the full DC dev setup really) it's next to impossible to do anything useful with it.

I'm looking into writing a step editor for PCs now though. I've been studying wxWindows and it looks like it's up to the task. I could then make a Linux and Windows port. It'd also have a thing to help you create Swap CD images (which will probably be done and released first as a console-mode app).


Response to an earlier post: we can't post any sort of copyrighted data (including step patterns, and thus DWIs). Posting those is technically just as illegal as posting the music data itself, though I haven't heard much of Konami getting angry at fan sites for it. Much as it'd be nice to have it available, I can't really even feel good about posting adjusted GAP data for Konami songs. I have those numbers for several songs, but I haven't posted them because I don't want them to think we're trying to encourage the "piracy" of their music or anything. Sorry 'bout that. :|

However, if anyone creates completely original step data then I think that'd be great, and if anyone creates original songs (or has permission from the copyright holder) and creates steps, that'd be even better. I'm hoping to set something up on the web site so people can submit their own songs for download at some point.
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Post by sjackal » Sun Oct 20, 2002 9:41 pm

i believe that xstep is only available for windows..
http://www.thomasscott.net/xstep/

but it's a pretty simple program. wine should work fine.
my only real concern would be the winamp integration...
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Post by area » Mon Oct 21, 2002 1:00 am

CrypticAllusion wrote: Response to an earlier post: we can't post any sort of copyrighted data (including step patterns, and thus DWIs). Posting those is technically just as illegal as posting the music data itself, though I haven't heard much of Konami getting angry at fan sites for it.
If that was a reply to my post, I think you misunderstood me. I didn't want to post step files that were copyrighted; I wanted to post step files that the community had made, but for commercial songs that couldn't be distributed with them legally. If you had access to the song legally, you could then burn a swap disk for it, and others that you wanted.
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Post by Kiley » Mon Oct 21, 2002 1:25 am

area wrote:
CrypticAllusion wrote: Response to an earlier post: we can't post any sort of copyrighted data (including step patterns, and thus DWIs). Posting those is technically just as illegal as posting the music data itself, though I haven't heard much of Konami getting angry at fan sites for it.
If that was a reply to my post, I think you misunderstood me. I didn't want to post step files that were copyrighted; I wanted to post step files that the community had made, but for commercial songs that couldn't be distributed with them legally. If you had access to the song legally, you could then burn a swap disk for it, and others that you wanted.
Is that what you mean -

"Bob buys the latest CD of band X

He rip song 1 it to Oggs Vorbis, makes a DWI step file himself and posts it on the web (NOT with the .ogg)

If Ben also owns band X's cd, he can download Bobs DWI, rip the .ogg himself then put em together and play."

If so I cant see why it would be illegal and would be a great thing to start on this or another website

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Post by area » Mon Oct 21, 2002 2:05 am

Thats exactly what I mean :)
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Post by gamesnark » Mon Oct 21, 2002 3:07 am

djray wrote:
gamesnark wrote:
djray wrote:i already have a ddr pad using a PSX->DC adapter called "Super DC Converter"

i was wondering if any1 has tested FOF with "Super DC Converter" with successful results... b/c i don't have a burner :(

FOF sounds great!! can't wait for the final version in January!!
I belive that's the same kind of adapter I have, it doesn't work at all.
here's the page for the auction I got it from, so you can see if it's the same one you have:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 1386127687
gamesnark, damn that's unfortunate... it's the same adapter i have!!
have you tried flipping the switch on the side of Super DC Converter??

I'm going try and borrow my friend's burner so I can test FoF!
yup, tried switching it, also tested it with a normal PSX controller to see if it was just my mats that didn't work. no luck at all.
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Post by Dan Potter » Mon Oct 21, 2002 6:08 pm

area wrote:If that was a reply to my post, I think you misunderstood me. I didn't want to post step files that were copyrighted; I wanted to post step files that the community had made, but for commercial songs that couldn't be distributed with them legally. If you had access to the song legally, you could then burn a swap disk for it, and others that you wanted.
Doh! I did misunderstood you. Yeah, I think that would be fine as well.
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Post by Lartrak » Tue Oct 22, 2002 3:45 am

I'll toss in my compliments. Brilliant. I haven't messed with it to much, but the graphical look alone (baring one or two MINOR quibbles) are fantastic. The effects of speed ups and slow downs and the turns, it's all great and unique to the game. I honestly never expected a homebrew to reach this level of proffesionalism on the DC. No offense to the other homebrewers, quite a few of them are very good. :)

And also, my 'Stay Cool' PSX dance mat with a Total Control adapter works completely perfectly. Lucky me, as I haven't been that happy with the adapter otherwise. L and R on the DC become L2 and R2 on the PSX - what up with that?
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Post by BlackAura » Tue Oct 22, 2002 12:05 pm

I don't know if it's just the way I burned it, but when I try to select the Swap CD option, it loads for a bit then I get a purple screen saying something like "Software Failure (register dumps or something) Please contact...". I burned it on a multisession disc (about session 15, I think) and booted it using a DemoMenu boot disc.

I think I'm getting the hang of playing this now. Still can't play it above the first skill level, but I can do all but two songs well on that level. I'm still impressed, even after a couple of days. Nice job!
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FoF

Post by mmboy » Tue Oct 22, 2002 3:09 pm

My dance mat works PERFECTLY too :D, oh yea, can you make u easier songs DJ Geki/Cryptic, All of em' are like impossible to get a good score on :o and I think it would be a great idea for a 1 player story mode type thing, cuz I dont know many peeps who have 2 controller converters & 2 Dance mats :P, Oh yea, u probably know this already, sumtimes at the end of a song arrows still come up once the song is over... if u know what i mean :P

thanx
sig down :( gehy boomspeed... any1 wanna host it? where could i host it?
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Post by yodanut » Tue Oct 22, 2002 4:54 pm

I think the arrows after the end of the song are on purpose. You know, to keep you on your toes at higher difficulty levels. Cryptic Allusion already mentioned he's planning an arcade mode which I assume would be story based (there are characters in the game, after all).

I'd love to see a Samba de Amigo-style challenge mode where you accuracy percentage or rating rather than your life bar (which is pretty cool in battle mode) determines your passing. Considering the high level of quality in the game I'm sure whatever's planned will be great!
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Post by DJ Geki » Wed Oct 23, 2002 12:42 am

yodanut wrote:I think the arrows after the end of the song are on purpose. You know, to keep you on your toes at higher difficulty levels. Cryptic Allusion already mentioned he's planning an arcade mode which I assume would be story based (there are characters in the game, after all).
That's exactly right. Those extra arrows are there to make sure you aren't slacking! :) Actually, Dan added those arrows, so we'll have to ask him why they're there. Note, however, that if you see any GREEN arrows come up at the end of a song, it's because a bomb item has been triggered late.
mmboy wrote: oh yea, can you make u easier songs DJ Geki/Cryptic, All of em' are like impossible to get a good score on
heh heh...we COULD make easier steps for the songs that are currently there. But we probably aren't going to :) There will (hopefully) be MANY more songs in the game when it is completed, and there will most definitely be some songs that are directed towards beginners. So don't worry, you'll get your chance to turn pro.

Laterz...

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Post by Dan Potter » Wed Oct 23, 2002 2:32 pm

DJ Geki wrote:That's exactly right. Those extra arrows are there to make sure you aren't slacking! :) Actually, Dan added those arrows, so we'll have to ask him why they're there. Note, however, that if you see any GREEN arrows come up at the end of a song, it's because a bomb item has been triggered late.
Actually I've Got No Clue where they came from either. ;) A while back I was playing Got No Clue and realized that there were some arrows way down at the bottom after the music ended and I was thinking.. uhh... how did those get there? I thought I killed most of them but I might have missed a few.

Roddy's right about the green arrows -- this is something I thought I'd fixed as well, but it looks like some of the songs have some silence at the end and the game doesn't realize this. I'll probably put a cutoff at some point where it won't add any arrows after that point (maybe where the arrows actually stopped in the original steps).
DJ Geki wrote:heh heh...we COULD make easier steps for the songs that are currently there. But we probably aren't going to :) There will (hopefully) be MANY more songs in the game when it is completed, and there will most definitely be some songs that are directed towards beginners. So don't worry, you'll get your chance to turn pro.
Yeah, I'm echoing Roddy's sentiment here... Of course, I have no real concept of how hard the game is at this point -- I've played it so much during testing that I can crank up the difficulty settings all the way in the options menu, play the hardest song on the hardest difficulty, and still usually beat the computer. :D So I usually go get my girlfriend and ask her to play (she's a DDR beginner) to get a better idea of how hard something is.

And we do have a ton more songs to add .. we've got several from Chojin (whose music has shown up in other DC homebrew things like Paul's 3D Invaders) and more coming from other sources. We were hoping to have the Chojin ones in for this round of the game, but just didn't have the time to make steps for it -- his beats are really complex!
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Post by djray » Wed Oct 23, 2002 5:53 pm

please add support for "Super DC Converter"!!

and also maybe you guys at cryptic allusion can make a beatmania clone!! :D

that would be the best!
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Post by sjackal » Thu Oct 24, 2002 12:02 pm

i don't know if this is a bug or if it's intentional or what...


but i know a way to get a nearly constant "perfect" ..
just press all four arrows with each beat.


there should be some kind of penalty for pressing unnecessary arrows..
unless there is and i just haven't realized it
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Post by Dan Potter » Thu Oct 24, 2002 1:56 pm

sjackal wrote:i don't know if this is a bug or if it's intentional or what...
but i know a way to get a nearly constant "perfect" ..
just press all four arrows with each beat.
there should be some kind of penalty for pressing unnecessary arrows..
unless there is and i just haven't realized it
Someone else emailed me with the same exact comment, actually ;). The deal there is that a lot of the harder songs (i.e., harder than about 4 stars) are basically impossible on a dance mat if you can't keep your feet on the buttons longer than you're supposed to, and when you're not supposed to. We're actually emulating DDR for that particular trait. Could make for an interesting "super hard" mode though, to make you have to only hit the buttons when there's an arrow there. :)

You'd have to have really good timing to actually use that system. Especially on the songs with lots of 16th notes.
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Post by Plautus » Fri Oct 25, 2002 11:25 am

Well, I made a Swap CD, sort of.

After several tries at making a Swap CD and ALWAYS getting the "Assertion Failure" after I select a character, I tried just burning the sample swap cd files as they come in the zip file on the CA site. No Dice. It seemed everything I tried with Nero didn't work. Among other things, I tried turning Joliet off and looking at the file tree, everything looked OK. So I read the FAQ again, and decided to try to "make my CDs the mkisofs way" using Dan's suggested command line:

mkisofs -l -r -o img.iso cd_root/

and it made an iso file that burned in Nero and worked fine in the game. Now I can actually get somewhere. So if you're having trouble like I did, it might be worth your while to stop tinkering with the pretty burning program and just consider the command-line option that has now worked for at least 2 people :lol:

Now that I am free to start trying to make my own Swap CDs, it occurs to me that a step editor would be helpful to adjust the GAP values on my dwi files, since I'm not that good at counting milliseconds :) Dan, are there any plans to do a release with a step editor before the main release, or should I just wait?

Also: I found this in the DWI FAQ:

Are .dwi files the same as .msd files?

The formats are very similar. When we were adding in the new features of DWI (Hold Arrows, Solo Mode, Background animations, etc.) we knew we needed to change things in the file, which meant choosing a new extension since the stepfiles were now proprietary. You can rename a .msd file to a .dwi file and play it in DWI, but GAP values from .msd files will not work very well with DWI; so if you're converting your old MSD files you'll have to Use The Force and set new GAP values for each file.

I'm not familiar with the MSD format, and can't find a lot of information about it. Off the top of your head, might GAP values from MSD files be appropriate for FoF? I'll probably try it anyhow.
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Post by sjackal » Fri Oct 25, 2002 11:37 am

challenge mode?

sounds like it'd be a good way to earn hidden things... =-)
new characters/attacks/whatever..

that could make the game sellable on a newer system........
it already seems *very* professional (good job)
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Post by BlackAura » Fri Oct 25, 2002 1:06 pm

I tried using The Higher You Get from the sample FoF Swap disc in Dance with Intensity, and I couldn't actually notice a gap difference. Maybe it's just be having bad coordination or something, but it seems to work perfectly.
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