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This forum is for discussion pertaining to homebrew and indie software for the Dreamcast, such as homebrew games, emulators/interpreters, and other homebrew software/applications. Porting requests and developmental ideas are not to be made here; you can make those here. If you need any help burning discs for homebrew software, this is the place to ask as well.
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Post by fatheadpi » Thu Aug 15, 2002 12:13 am

I believe you wuld be referring to the Sega Dreamcast Movie Maker. This is the sofdec encoder ripped from the Dreamcast SDK. It has the advantage of producing very high quality movies at full speed, even in full frame, and with good quality audio, but has several drawbacks.

1. The video compression is sofdec (RE: Crap-tastic MPEG-1) and the MINIMUM bitrate is 2.0 mbps (2000 k/s)

2. The audio is SFA, aka ADX. Problem? Indeed. Only 1/4 Audio compression. A stereo 44.1 khz stream HAS to be 396 kbps. This is not adjustable.

3. Fairly long encoding time, like encoding a movie in 2-pass vbr mode with TMPGEnc, only a little bit longer. Figure a 2 hour movie should take all day to encode.

4. Movies have to be played from the web browser, so you need a little hacking initiative.

5. It's illegal as all get out. We're talking Tony Danza illegal here.

That's what you're referring too, great quality, but low playtime, 45 minutes max.
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Post by Mr.TA » Thu Aug 15, 2002 11:40 am

fatheadpi wrote:I believe you wuld be referring to the Sega Dreamcast Movie Maker. This is the sofdec encoder ripped from the Dreamcast SDK. It has the advantage of producing very high quality movies at full speed, even in full frame, and with good quality audio, but has several drawbacks.

1. The video compression is sofdec (RE: Crap-tastic MPEG-1) and the MINIMUM bitrate is 2.0 mbps (2000 k/s)

2. The audio is SFA, aka ADX. Problem? Indeed. Only 1/4 Audio compression. A stereo 44.1 khz stream HAS to be 396 kbps. This is not adjustable.

3. Fairly long encoding time, like encoding a movie in 2-pass vbr mode with TMPGEnc, only a little bit longer. Figure a 2 hour movie should take all day to encode.

4. Movies have to be played from the web browser, so you need a little hacking initiative.

5. It's illegal as all get out. We're talking Tony Danza illegal here.

That's what you're referring too, great quality, but low playtime, 45 minutes max.
1. Wrong. IIRC, the bitrate is adjustable from around 600kbs all the way up to 3600kbs.

2. Wrong again. The audio is adjustable as well, but IMO anything less than 22050 stereo/mono is worthless.

FACTOID: Did you know that the newer SDK's have a sound libary for DolbyDigital? Don't ask.

3. Encoding time varies...ripping a m1v from a VCD/mpeg can take a few minutes with TMPGEnc. Converting a mp2/mp3 audio track to a uncompressed wav then encoding it to a sfa/adx can take a few minutes as well for a full length movie. Encoding a uncompressed avi or converting a Divx movie can take several hours depending on your encoding methods and movie size.

4. Strike 3 bud! But one could do it like that if one wanted too. I'll give ya the benefit of the doubt. ::FOUL BALL::

5. AFAIK, the player is legal as it came with all the newer DC Browsers...the encoding tools are another matter tho.

Hmm, 45 minutes huh? I have several 2 hour + sfd movies. The video quality can get pretty bad at that point with CBR...2-pass helps out a lot.

And before you folks get in a hissy I used to work in a prominent dev house and had access to several DC SDK's...so nah! :)
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Post by fatheadpi » Thu Aug 15, 2002 3:50 pm

Alright! Somebody who's seen better kits and knows what they're talking aboot!

I have no idea what kit you're using, but the one that I have works like I said. If I encode a movie, it always fails to encode with less than 2 mbps video bitrate. I know you can drop it down, I've just never had a sucesful encode this way.

As for audio, yeah, you can cut it down on your khz / channel selection, but if I was gonna do that, I'd just use dc-divx instead. I use sofdec when I want good audio quality, which to me is 44.1 stereo, and under my encoder that locks me to a 396kbps stream.

Oooh, Factoid!!! Me likey!!!

Still not quite sure how you're encoding this, you mean like multiplexing or what? The way I've always done for DVD encodes:

1. Rip / decode / de-macro vobs from dvd. (30 minutes tops)

2. make frameservable avi and decode / demux audio (10 minutes tops)

3. Set up the encoder (10 mintes tops)

4. Encode. Takes a long assed time.

Might just be my encoder, it's kinda worthless anyways.

As for the player bein legal, if you use planet web it works fine, just need a fair amount of knowledge and some special tools to rip everything from the cdi, plus some html knowledge and the x-avefront commands. Dream Passport is nicer, it has a pause botton. There's an autoplay one ripped from I think wacky racers. The player is generally legal, it's the encoding part that gets people. I just look at it this way: Sega cancelled my system, I can use a few tools to play movies on it. What freaked me out is that I saw crazy taxi 3 on the x-box the other day at circuit city, and it was STILL using adx audio / sofdec video.

My encoder has no 2-pass option... damn!!!

I'd kill to get my hands on a better sofdec encoder. Or a player with some controls.
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Post by XDelusion » Mon Sep 02, 2002 7:45 pm

Do they have something like TMPGEnc for Linux or something? I can't rely on winblows to do my multimedia stuff without corrupting everyting. Sometimes TmpGEnc does a fine job, other times, I get hisses and pops in my sound, and I don't even have anything else running in the background. This is ticking me off BIG time, Bill Gates needs to die, as does M$ so developers can pour there time into a real OS such as the recently deceased BeOS or the newly revived Amgia OS! Anyhow... :)
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Post by fatheadpi » Sat Sep 21, 2002 7:34 pm

Does TMPGEnc work for making video under winblows? And which route are you interested in, SOFDEC or GYPPLAY?
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Post by fatheadpi » Sat Sep 21, 2002 7:50 pm

I've been tinkering with SOFDEC more and more, here's where I am for those of you are interested in this project.

Currently, I am using a DreamPassport 3 browser to play the files back. For more info, PM me.

I have now been able to produce the video without using the illegal SDK movie maker. Just use TMPGEnc http://www.TMPGEnc.com to produce an MPEG-1 stream. A 2-pass stream at 600 - 800 - 1000 in full screen mode looks great, can't imagine what widescreen will look like. The video encoding process is comparible to 2 pass encoding under Divx, time wise specifically.

As far as audio goes, I have been tinkering with version .02 of wav2adx, with mixed results. While the files will play, they always come out garbled. I have only had a few songs come out properly, why this is I have no idea. If you have a more modern version of wav2adx, know how to encode the files the right way, or have another LEGAL AND FREE adx encoder, please let me know. Until then, I am stuck using the SDK movie maker to produce the audio file.

The multiplexing step is now the only place where the SDK movie maker is needed. I am able to just use the front end executable to multiplex the files, I don't need to install the whole application. This basically knocks the needed sdk files down from 7.5 megs to 303 kbytes. I need a programmer who would be interested in developing a freeware SOFDEC multiplexor.
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Post by CaTaClYsM » Thu Oct 03, 2002 5:02 pm

Ok, I've been inactive for a while but I'm back. And I have a question. I have a DVD player now and it play VCD's, I can make DVD quality VCD's and I noticed something. There was an AVM (anime music video) called Tainted Doughnuts that I put, unaltered, onto my dreamcast CD, and it played perfectly, put the exact same one onto the VCD, utter crap. It was slow, choppy, just bad. I tested it on another DVD player with similar results. Whats the deal? DVD players are supposed to take bitrates at 2000, and VCD's that I've coded have gone to 640x480 with a bitrate of 2000 and played fine. so why is this 352x240 video giving my DVD player greif, but my dreamcast plays it perfectly?
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Post by XDelusion » Tue Oct 15, 2002 5:03 pm

CaTaClYsM: What capture card do you use? Also what software do you use to cut your video's, and burn them? I use Nero to burn, which is fine, and IFilm Edit to cut, but IFilm is retarded and thinks it can't fit a 600Mb file onto a drive with 10Gb free space at time. :)

As for the capture card, I can't seem to do 640x480 with this ATI card, so I'd like to update to something that can. Any advice on software and hardware would be great.

P.S. My Nero Burned VCD's work on both DC and DVD great!
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Post by Arqueiro » Mon Jan 13, 2003 7:55 am

do u have any tutorial explain how do make sdf videos for play in Dreamcast ?
3d graphics and visualization ?
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Post by TreyDay » Thu Feb 27, 2003 11:14 pm

Here's a good method on making a file that is too big, be able to fit on one CD. This is good so you won't have to downsample the audio or video, or if you only have one CD left.

If you have two files that are two big to fit on a CD, multiplex them together using TMPGEnc. This will make the new file bigger than the original two, but you're not done yet. Then take the new, big file and demultiplex it into an m1v file and mp2 file. Then take those two files and multiplex them together. It should be roughly half the size with no video/audio quality loss.

Not sure if everyone knew this, or if this has been posted before. But if you don't know, now you know. :wink:
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Post by fatheadpi » Thu Feb 27, 2003 11:31 pm

Huh? How in the hell would... what the... HUH!
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Post by OneThirty8 » Thu Feb 27, 2003 11:54 pm

TreyDay wrote: Here's a good method on making a file that is too big, be able to fit on one CD. This is good so you won't have to downsample the audio or video, or if you only have one CD left.

If you have two files that are two big to fit on a CD, multiplex them together using TMPGEnc. This will make the new file bigger than the original two, but you're not done yet. Then take the new, big file and demultiplex it into an m1v file and mp2 file. Then take those two files and multiplex them together. It should be roughly half the size with no video/audio quality loss.

Not sure if everyone knew this, or if this has been posted before. But if you don't know, now you know.
:o
fatheadpi wrote: Huh? How in the hell would... what the... HUH!
Just to add to that... While in theory it's absolutely ludicrous, in practice it doesn't work.

Unless there's some magic program that I don't know about, that is... :?
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Post by TreyDay » Fri Feb 28, 2003 2:57 pm

OneThirty8 wrote:
Just to add to that... While in theory it's absolutely ludicrous, in practice it doesn't work.

Unless there's some magic program that I don't know about, that is... :?
In theory it's not ludicris and and it works in practice. Did you try it and it not work, or are you just assuming that it won't work? I did it right before I posted that. It works. It only takes about 20 minutes total to do.

When you demultiplex the video audio is a small file which is about 100 MB, and video which is about 250 MB. Then when you multiplex them, they combine and go for about 450, when they were about 800 MB in total. Fvck you, try the sh*t before you say that it doesn't work.
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Post by fatheadpi » Fri Feb 28, 2003 3:27 pm

And the whole vid is still there?
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Post by fatheadpi » Fri Feb 28, 2003 3:47 pm

By the way, don't be a dick in these forums. THat's what off topic is for, and lately I seem to be a little edit-happy with my mod powers. OneThirtyEight, Az, and myself are mods of this forum because we know this stuff. Don't piss us off.

138, try not to piss off people, even though their ideas are.. well... less than likely to work.
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Post by TreyDay » Fri Feb 28, 2003 3:52 pm

My bad, yes the whole video is there without any quality loss.
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Post by TreyDay » Fri Feb 28, 2003 3:54 pm

The reason I tried doing this was because I heard about it a long time ago, but never could try it because I had a Pentium 1 233 Mhz and it would take too long. Now, my computer is about 10 times as fast, so I tried it and it worked.

How do you expect me to react? I come trying to help some people out there, and he doesn't even test it and claims that it doesn't work.
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Post by az_bont » Fri Feb 28, 2003 5:04 pm

I can understand that you're trying to help, but what you're saying is by all logical means impossible. The only way to lower the filesize is to lower the bitrates, or to try some of TMPG's less documented features, like those taken advantage of with KVCD Templates, which allow full VCD-quality files that can allow up to 3 hours per disc with Widescreen movies.
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Post by TreyDay » Fri Feb 28, 2003 5:13 pm

or you could just try it and see that it works.
I don't know how it works, but it does.
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Post by az_bont » Fri Feb 28, 2003 5:17 pm

TreyDay wrote:or you could just try it and see that it works.
I don't know how it works, but it does.
Okay, I'll give it a go now - but I'm not expecting spectacular results. An MPG is a combination of video and audio, so splitting the two and re-joining them should in no way effect filesize. But it's worth a shot.
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