All Aboot Gypplay

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All Aboot Gypplay

Post by fatheadpi » Sat Jul 06, 2002 4:25 am

Alright, I'm starting this topic as a local knowledge base here on the site forums for information about Gypplay, the Lik Sang Edition in partucular. Any information posted on here by me is to be regarded as tested on Gypplay: Lik Sang Edition only. I plan to built this thread up so that users will know what Gypplay is, how it stacks up against dc-divx, and how to make movies for it. Most Gypplay related material is from my own personal experience, and while I know a good deal about dc divx, a good portion of my DC-Divx info comes from ZacMC, the Mac Daddy Ultra Pimp of DC-Divx and all things Duckman or duck oriented in nature.

To begin this topic, I'll tell you what Gypplay is all about. Gypplay is an MPEG-1 video player for the Sega Dreamcast. It was written by The Gypsy, aka John... , who still resides on Boob's Gypplay forum. To score a copy of Gypplay, go over here -----> http://www.dcemulation.org/soft-gyplay.htm

A common question I see people ask about Gypplay besides "What the hell is it?" is how does it compare against DC-Divx? Here's a comparison of Gypplay: Lik Sang edition vs. DC-Divx Beta 4 Release One:

Video Playback

DC-Divx: Good to great, and getting better all the time. Usually full speed to about full speed playback on files up to 30 fps, and better picture quality. Up to 3 hours of video on a 700 meg disc.

Gypplay: Alright. Usually plays back fairly close to full speed when CBR encoding is used, but choppily when any kind of VBR encoding is used. About 65 - 90 minutes of video on a disc max.

Point: DC-Divx

Audio Quality:

DC-Divx: Alright to good, slowly getting better. DC-Divx can run up to about 128 kbps with a 41 khz stream in certain types of videos, usually widescreen dvd rips converted back to 24 fps. However, in full screen, 25+ fps movies, higher quality audio can really bog things down, leaving you with at most about 32000 or even 22000 hz, and between 64 - 96 kbps. It also has ogg support, but noone around here, including me, seems to know dick about ogg vorbis audio.

Gypplay: As good as you want it to be. Gypplay supports MPEG-1 Audio, Layers one and two (no MP3 support). You can run a stream up to 320 kbps and 48khz (basically, DVD quality) without slowing down video speed or forcing reduced quality. Basically, Gypplay plays back video just bad enough that high quality audio couldn't possibly hurt it any more.

Point: Gypplay

Control Schemes

DC-Divx: BALLS!!! A slow and very buggy Fast Foward Function, Play/Pause that on occaision causes audio/video to lose sync or crash, and a 15 seconds of inactivity = autoplay all movies option that I think is annoying as hell.

Gypplay: Hella-sweet! Great fast foward / rewind controls, pressure sensitive, tied to the toggle stick. Seek through movies with ease. During the disc making process, you can make Gypplay skip an intro screen or two and play all the movies on the disc. Good pause / play function.

Neither player has loop, zoom, or playlists.

Point: Gypplay

User interface

Dc-Divx: Basic, but it gets the job done. Subdirectory support, skinnable, no intro screens. Also, 8.3 format is kind of a drag, and only files with the .avi or .mp3 extension are recognized. Real downer when you've got a good movie but you named it with the .divx extension.

Gypplay: Pretty good. Subdirectory support, not skinnable but what's there is pretty cool, few kind of annoying intro screens, supports filenames up to about 32 characters, and will show all extensions.

Point: Gypplay, unless you like skins and DOS-style names, then Dc-Divx

Self Booting / Launching

Dc-Divx: Versatile little bastard. Self bootable, binhack not needed, and thanks to its disc swap ability, distributable in image formats for newbs. Will also launch from all the menu programs (DemoMenu, DreamInducer, and DcHakker). Eats up less disc space, just a single bin program.

Gypplay: Honery lil bastard. Self bootable, but requires the use of binhack, I'll explain what this means later. Also tends to hang at the sega logo screen for up to 30 seconds before loading. It's wince based, and therefore must be self or utopia booted, no launch menu support. We may see some images on my site soon enough for those interested in a new disc swap method, recently discovered by Eduga, still no vcd support, but keep your fingers crossed. Eats up around 6 - 10 megs of space in just program files alone.

Point: Dc-Divx

That's the first series, coming next: The basics of Gypplay: What it will, might, and won't do, and questions you shouldn't ask lest I yell at thee.

In the meanwhile, look at the site in my sig for a lil more gypplay info, and for encoding, use the Tsunami Mpeg Encoder, http://www.tmpgenc.net
Last edited by fatheadpi on Fri Jul 19, 2002 3:10 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Post by CaTaClYsM » Sat Jul 06, 2002 8:22 pm

I haven't used DCdixv but I am goign to take a shot at it, but when it comes to to RELIABILITY, from what I have read it would have to be Gyp Play. I went and just burned random MPGs from off the net (Music Videos, Demo Movies, AMV's) and they ALL worked, most of them perfectly (there was an NWN promo video that lagged up a bit.) and they ALL looked better than their full screen counterparts on the computer.

(Which is strange since the video's I burned to watched looked like cromit*)


With this kind of MPG compatability, (and not needing to do any sort of compresion or RE compresion like I am doing right now with a divx movie I am going to try out.) in the way of reliability, it has to be Gpy Play.


PS I voted it for reliability, but don't think I like it




*cromit= a crap/vomit hybrid
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Re: All Aboot Gypplay

Post by dcemuromplayer » Sun Jul 07, 2002 2:41 am

fatheadpi wrote: Up to 3 hours of video on a 700 meg disc.
I have got about 6 hours (or 3 full length movies) to fit onto 1 DCDivx disk. (700mb self-booting w/player on same disk.)
anyone who owns an emulator is a warez using software pirate

or they just stare at the main menu all day long!!!!! :)
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Post by fatheadpi » Sun Jul 07, 2002 3:49 am

The Basics of Gypplay: What it will, might, and won't do.

Gypplay can handle about any mpeg-1 movie you throw at it, just at varying levels.

What can Gypplay play?

Gypplay can play back Mpeg-1 Video streams, both CBR and VBR, which we'll talk about later on in encoding. As far as audio goes, Mpeg 1 Layers 1 and 2 both work at any khz / bitrate, layer 2 working the best.

What about other stuff?

It's been said that Gypplay can play back certain avi files, namely uncompressed and Cinepak encoded files, but this has yet to be reliably established. The player suggests avi support but "no odd codecs". I have tried to get cinepak and ligos encoded files to work, but to no avail.
-Edit- Cinepak codec is now confirmed to work.

What are some things that definitely will not work?

Mpeg-2 videos and Mpeg 1 Layer 3 (MP3) audio, pretty much any avi file, most certainly divx / mpeg4 codecs, ogg / wma audio, asf files, and wmv files will never work. PADDED VBR STREAMS, EVEN MPEG-1 STREAMS, WILL MOST CERTAINLY NOT WORK.

Alright, I get it. So, without going into an entire encoding topic, what can Gypplay put up spec-wise?

MPEG-1 Video, 352x240 (Gypplay has no resolution lockouts like dc divx, but high resolution flicks don't play back well, don't go above 480 x 240). Bitrate-wise, Gypplay stalls out at about 1300 kbps in CBR mode. VBR mode is different, but that gets explained in later encoding topics. Use Mpeg 1 Layer 2 video for custom encodes, use whatever khz / bitrate you feel like, unlike dc divx, this doesn't kill playback horrendusly. Just leave the other stuff alone for right now.

I'm just starting to encode, any tips?

First, always use Tsunami Mpeg Encoder, http://www.tmpgenc.net . It's the absolute best mpeg encoder I've ever seen, it's free, and it kicks ass.
Plus, its pretty much the official mpeg encoder for the Dreamcast.

Second, leave the motion search precision setting set to normal. It's in the settings box, you'll see it when you click there.

Third, DO NOT PAD YOUR VBR STREAMS. This is the only thing that consistently crashes Gypplay.

Finally, use the 1:1 VGA aspect ratio.

Good luck for now, more soon.
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Post by fatheadpi » Tue Jul 09, 2002 5:09 am

ENCODING BASICS

The simplest encoding technique: Constant Bitrate Encoding

Constant Bitrate Encoding (CBR) gives each second of video the same amount of bandwidth to deal with. For example, a 30fps mpeg stream @ 1000 kbps = 1000/30 = 33 kb / frame. This mode plays back very well speed wise in gypplay, but it poses two problems. First, it takes a good hunk of bitrate to run a high quality mpeg movie, and it eats more space. Second, CBR movies give each frame the same amount of bitrate. Some frames need more bitrate, some need very little.

In the encoding process, this option encodes the fastest.

The better encoding technique: Variable Bitrate Encoding

Variable Bitrate Encoding (VBR) tries to allocate bandwidth in the frames that need it most. This results in higher quality streams at lower file siezes, but the variance in bitrates can be absolute hell on Gypplay.

In encoding, this method takes longer, depending on what VBR method you use.

THE BASICS OF ENCODING IN TMPGENC

It's 4 am, i'll continue this post soon.
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Re: All Aboot Gypplay

Post by az_bont » Tue Jul 09, 2002 11:27 am

fatheadpi wrote:It also has ogg support, but noone around here, including me, seems to know dick about ogg vorbis audio.
OGG Vorbis will only work with Audio-only files and not when it's encoded into video. There are plenty of pregrammes out there that can de/encode OGG files, you just have to spend a few minutes earching some of the download sites.
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Post by ZacMc » Tue Jul 09, 2002 10:49 pm

I voted for Dc-DivX because I've encoded well over 100 Dc-DivX vids and all of them play fine. If thats not reliable I don't know what is.
If you have a bunch of mpegs and don't want to encode 'em then GypPlay is for you but if you want to get the best compression/quality then stick with Dc-DivX.
It's been said that Gypplay can play back certain avi files, namely uncompressed and Cinepak encoded files, but this has yet to be reliably established. The player suggests avi support but "no odd codecs". I have tried to get cinepak and ligos encoded files to work, but to no avail.
I did some testing with GypPLay today and found out that the Cinepak Codec does work. I tested Cinepak with res as high as 592 x 256 and bitrate as high as 500. This codec doesn't look as good (or have as good compression) as Mpeg-1 but I figured some of you might have wanted to about it anyway. I also tested Uncompressed, PicvideoMjpeg, Indeo5.04 but none of them worked.
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Post by fatheadpi » Tue Jul 09, 2002 11:14 pm

Hey Zac, How'd you encode / multiplex the audio back into the vid?
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Post by ZacMc » Wed Jul 10, 2002 12:37 am

fatheadpi wrote:Hey Zac, How'd you encode / multiplex the audio back into the vid?
I used PCM audio. I didn't want to take the time to figure out how to mux mpeg layer 1/2 with an avi :|
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Post by fatheadpi » Wed Jul 10, 2002 1:15 am

Yeah, I don't blame you. I'm gonna do a quick disc, single cinepak test file at 900 bitrate, no audio, widescreen dvd rip of clerks, see what it looks like. Also, working off of a hunch and file extensions, I'm putting some different files off of some sega saturn discs on here, I'll explain later if it works, if not i'll likely just edit this out to cover my dumb ass.

What version of the cinepak codec are you using? And I think there's a cinepak audio codec as well, if gypplay knows aboot cinepak video, it might know aboot audio.
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Post by ZacMc » Wed Jul 10, 2002 1:22 am

fatheadpi wrote:Also, working off of a hunch and file extensions, I'm putting some different files off of some sega saturn discs on here, I'll explain later if it works, if not i'll likely just edit this out to cover my dumb ass.
You'll have to edit my post too now that I've quoted you :twisted:
And I think there's a cinepak audio codec as well, if gypplay knows aboot cinepak video, it might know aboot audio.
Can't hurt to try.
What version of the cinepak codec are you using?
Cinepak Codec Version 1.10.0.6

BTW- You know you will get a really big file if you use 900k with cinepak, right?
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Post by fatheadpi » Wed Jul 10, 2002 1:32 am

Dammit Zac.

Yeah, same codec here. I'll mess with it some tonight, then some moretomorrow, gettin files together. I base my saturn suspicions on 2 things: 1. my favorite new warez adx decoder with some kind of saturn support, and 2: a file extension of .cpk

That's all for now, I'll let you knw what happens, guess i'll be adding some info to some earlier posts, never finish this damned thing. And you said gypplay for dummies would be easy. Or was that me? DOH!

And yeah, i'm aware of the file thing, I kicked over to a 38 second file at 89 quality, it came out at like 38 megs, but it looked alright.
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Post by fatheadpi » Wed Jul 10, 2002 2:17 am

My saturn theory didn't come through. THat cinepak avi file, while low in quality, had amazing playback, total full speed. I think i'll set up a vcf file to use this for gypplay, with the intention of making a short playing, ultra hq setup. THis definitely goes under the advanced tab. Good work, Zac. I'll see if there really is a cinepak audio codec.
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Post by ZacMc » Wed Jul 10, 2002 11:28 am

You can SWAP discs with gyplay WITHOUT chip installed.

You Need:
-Action replay CDX [or Gameshark] (demo or full works as well)
-Utopia CD loader
-Selfboot Gypplay with at least 1 mpg video
-Non selfboot Gypplay (to be loaded with CD loader) with at least 1 mpg video.

For swap between MODE 2 data discs:
First put AR cdx (or GS), after load, replace with selfboot gypplay, and start without codes, then when gypplay loads, play at least a second the mpg video contained, now open cd lid, NOW you can SWAP cds mode2 with mpg videos.

For swap between MODE 1 data discs:
First put AR cdx (or GS), after load, replace with UTOPIA CD loader, and start without codes, then when CD loader start, put your non selfboot gypplay disc, when starts play at least a second the mpg video contained, now open cd lid, NOW you can SWAP cds mode1 (like mangazine DISCS) with mpg videos.

Note that unfortunately, still you can?t swap VCDs, don?t know, but a VCD is a strange MODE2 data disc with 2 MODE2 tracks (?).

Thanks to Eduga for this info :P
Last edited by ZacMc on Tue Jul 16, 2002 1:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by fatheadpi » Wed Jul 10, 2002 11:54 am

THanks for getting that disc swap info in the thread, been meanin to get to it, but busy with other stuff, and good job on giving Eduga credit. If he gets VCD swap to work, we're gonna knight him.
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Post by ZacMc » Thu Jul 11, 2002 2:25 pm

Selfbooting Gypplay With DSSBS Final.

Download DSSBS Final from the Needed Tools page. Unzip it. *If you're using WinXP/2000 you'll also need to download the choice.zip found on the Needed Tools page to get DSSBS Final working properly. Unzip it & put CHOICE.COM into the DSSBS Final folder.*

Download the GypPlay plain files from this page. Unzip it.

Move everything from the GypPlay_LikSangEdition folder into DSSBS Final's "new" folder.

Put your videos into the "new" folder.

Click on dssbs.bat & select 1 to make a Discjuggler image, 2 to make a Nero image, 3 to make a CDRWin image or 4 to make a Fireburner image.

Once the image is made, start up your burning program of choice & select burn image.

THX to Dr.Z for writing this. :wink:
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Gyplay swap disc trick won't work

Post by joshsmitty » Mon Jul 15, 2002 9:30 pm

I have GameShark and Gyplay, both selfboot, and tried the way explained. The homemade VCD I made would not load. Why!!?
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Post by fatheadpi » Mon Jul 15, 2002 10:30 pm

Umm.. what the hell are you trying to do? If you're trying to acheive disc swap, read the tutorial, your gypplay cd shouldn't be a selfboot.

If you're trying to swap in a conventional VCD, even a home made one, it's not gonna work, read the tutorial on disc swap with gypplay.

If by a vcd you mean a cd with gypplay and movies on it, you are refering to a DVCD, which you should make selfbooting anyways, as the current disc swap scheme is (in my opinion) a little more work than it's worth.

Be a little clearer.
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Post by fatheadpi » Fri Jul 19, 2002 2:52 am

ALRIGHT, BETTER EXPLANATION OF ALL ENCODING METHODS

Haven't put much in lately, been busy, but here's some more in depth encoding options for Gypplay under TMPGEnc.

Constant bitrate mode (CBR)

Usable resolutions: Up to 352 x 288
Bitrate: Up to 1300 kbps.
Playback: Up to 30 fps at around 900, slightly jerky up to 1300, unwatchable beyond that.
Quality: Alright, definitely watchable.

Ups: Fastest encoding, very reliable, fullspeed to very close to fullspeed playback.

Downs: Lowest overall quality. Large file sizes, maxes out at 75 - 85 minutes on 700 meg discs. At scene changes, playback breaks up, the frame only kicks over to the new scne about 1/4th frame at a time.

CBR Encoding notes: None

Variable Bitrate Mode, 2-Pass (VBR)

Usable Resolutions: Up to 472 x approx 288
Bitrate: Up to about 1200 kbps before playback completely deteriorates.
Playback: Depends. If you limit your max bitrate to about 700, playback rarely suffers, but going above and beyond this can really beat the living hell out of your playback, despite dc-divx and beyond quality.
Quality: From lil better than CBR good at lower resolutions to "screw sofdec, this rules!" at higher ones. If your source is DVD, you will crap yourself if you use a VBR of about 1100.

Ups: Mad quality, fairly small file sizes, almost 100 minutes on some discs, no scene change problems. The only VBR setting worth messing around with.

Downs: Playback can seriously begin to suffer when you want bight quality streams. Encoding also takes a good deal longer. Usually poor playback at anything above 700 kbps.

VBR Encoding notes: WHen you use 2-pass mode, the bitrate options box has several options. One is your bitrate, layed out as minimum / average / max. Keeping the minimum within 100 or the maximum and the average somewhere in the middle helps to counter playback speed loss, but pusing it out to 200 or 300 makes for damn good quality. Example:

minimum: 500
average: 550 This set would have good playback, but about CBR
maximum: 600 quality.

min: 400
av: 500 This set will have better quality, smaller size, but
max: 600 degraded playback.

DO NOT CLICK THE ENABLE PADDING OPTION. THIS IS ONE OF ONLY THREE WAYS I KNOW OF TO LOCK UP GYPPLAY OR GET AN ERROR MESSAGE.

Cinipack Encoding (CPAK)

Finally confirmed for Gypplay, first by Zac, then by me. It's an advanced topic, but it does play back full speed, however, no one here has the tools to deal with getting the proper audio stream in the file, so you're stuck with PCM, pretty worthless, maybe 20 minutes of video on a disc.

General video encoding tips for TMPGEnc:

1. Use the default IBP setting of 1:5:2 . Increasing B and P frames reduces file size, but can make glitchy streams if you overdo it.

2. Use normal search precision. The higher levels give less than neglidgeable quality boosts, and just add on to encoding time.

3. Always make sure you have the newest version of TMPGEnc, http://www.tmpgenc.net

THat's the basics of Gypplay encoding, next audio, then doing stuff with TMPGEnc.
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well heres my two cents

Post by vicviper74 » Wed Aug 14, 2002 9:28 pm

I've tried the dc divix but the coverting of the files is a pain in the ass
First i tried to use those steps that someone made" the website" Followed em to a tee, STILL DIDNT WORK =(

So i went to the boards there they said to download two aditional programs to finish converting the mpeg to avi.

The first process takes about 20 minutes, I can just imagine what the rest would take. screw that I'll just stick to gyp play.

Get an mpeg, burn it, and watch it. done =)

THANK GOD EMULATORS ARNT THIS HARD TO BURN

I WAS SOO DESPARATE, I WAS LOOKING FOR THE ILLEGAL VERSION OF THE CONVERTER FOR THE DREAMCAST

I dont remember what is was called. If they would just make a simple program that would do it all in one, instead of having to switch betweeen 3 programs to make ONE DAMN MOVIE!!! play it WOULD be worth it. but too much crap for a freakin movie.

THATS JUST MY OPINION. and I'm am intitled to such. PEACE
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