SH4/5 swap?

Discuss modifications you have done or plan to do to your Dreamcast or any other hardware, or discuss devices you want to build. If your console does not work or is acting up, ask about fixing it in here.
User avatar
Quzar
Dream Coder
Dream Coder
Posts: 7497
https://www.artistsworkshop.eu/meble-kuchenne-na-wymiar-warszawa-gdzie-zamowic/
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2002 12:14 am
Location: Miami, FL
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 9 times
Contact:

SH4/5 swap?

Post by Quzar »

i have read up on the SH5 and according to what i have read, the SH5 should be completely swappable with the SH4 and would allow for a new form of hombrewing for the DC as that it would have an expanded instruction set. If this is true, if it would even work at all with the SH5 swapped into it i would be interested in performng such a hardware mod.
MidnightObsidian
Symbiotic Anomaly
Symbiotic Anomaly
Posts: 1234
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2001 12:50 am
Location: Portland, OR, USA
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0
Contact:

Post by MidnightObsidian »

God, I am SO happy that I'm not a mod anymore.
Last edited by MidnightObsidian on Fri Aug 09, 2002 12:54 am, edited 2 times in total.
I'm not Clessoulis. Seriously.
NeonGenesis
Respected Artist
Respected Artist
Posts: 1015
Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2002 3:46 pm
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0
Contact:

Post by NeonGenesis »

lmao, Midnight. I read the post, shook my head, and moved on.
Image
TheDumbAss
QuakeDev Mod
QuakeDev Mod
Posts: 1233
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2001 7:44 pm
Location: Indpls, IN USA
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0
Contact:

Post by TheDumbAss »

If someone gave me an sh5, a working dreamcast, a few days to waste, and a fine tip soldering iron... I'd likely figure out something better to do. heh.

It may work... but it most likely wouldnt.
My old Sig was broken. Enter the new Sig!
Synlor
Official DCEMU Stalker
Official DCEMU Stalker
Posts: 1604
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 6:26 pm
Location: South Dakota
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0
Contact:

Post by Synlor »

it most likely will never work. it may be teh same family, but youc an't run it on an older machine. there is no possible way(to my knowledge) that you can put a pentium 3 in a 486 motherboard, same thing. it may be compatible, but won't work without other upgrades.
Image
Thanks to Digital Chaos, GoldbergWWE, and ace for the avatar, sig, and badge!
http://devcast.dcemulation.com
MidnightObsidian
Symbiotic Anomaly
Symbiotic Anomaly
Posts: 1234
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2001 12:50 am
Location: Portland, OR, USA
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0
Contact:

Post by MidnightObsidian »

No, you know what? Now that I think about it, this really might work! You could take out the SH-4 and replace it with an SH-5. Also, you could piggyback an extra 512MB of PC2700 RAM on top of what's already in there. You'd have to hack the BIOS, but it'd work. While we're at it, we could yank out that crappy old PowerVR2DC and replace it with a GeForce4 Ti 4600! Then, we could rip out the GD-ROM and replace it with a DVD-RW drive! Slap in a 60GB hard drive, and we're set. With those kinds of stats, you could make Sonic 2 run at a faster framerate! This would even make N64, PS2, and Xbox emulation reality! Wow! The possibilities are endless!

If I were still a mod, I would have closed this topic and shot myself immediately after reading it. I'm still considering the latter part of that statement.
Last edited by MidnightObsidian on Fri Aug 09, 2002 2:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
I'm not Clessoulis. Seriously.
Wagh (Original)
Psychotic DCEmu
Psychotic DCEmu
Posts: 556
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2002 8:46 am
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Post by Wagh (Original) »

BAHHAHAHHAHHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHHA :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

aye me

thanks for the laugh
Image
Sub Woofer
DCEmu Cop
DCEmu Cop
Posts: 466
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2001 7:44 pm
Location: Australia Mate!
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Post by Sub Woofer »

C'mon guys. The guy asked a legitimate question. Its not his fault he doesn't understand it completely. Cut him some slack.

You know, if someone like Doughboy flamed someone this way, you'd all cry for a ban. But flaming people IS wrong, As of recently, I've seen so many people flaming newbies for things that they just mis-understood. How are they going to learn if they are just flamed and laughed at?

Whatever happened to the happy old helpful DCEmu back when we were newbies? :?
Image

Spiderman! Spiderman! Friendy Neighbourhood Spiderman!
Spins a web... any size..... catches thiefs, just like flies!
WATCH OUT... here comes the Spiderman!
DoughBoy
Yes, that's right I'm a
Yes, that's right I'm a
Posts: 537
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2002 3:05 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0
Contact:

Post by DoughBoy »

Sub Woofer wrote:C'mon guys. The guy asked a legitimate question. Its not his fault he doesn't understand it completely. Cut him some slack.

You know, if someone like Doughboy flamed someone this way, you'd all cry for a ban. But flaming people IS wrong, As of recently, I've seen so many people flaming newbies for things that they just mis-understood. How are they going to learn if they are just flamed and laughed at?

Whatever happened to the happy old helpful DCEmu back when we were newbies? :?
Word, true dat :)
Another great and interesting post brought to you by the DoughBoy!

P.S. I'm looking for A Turbo Express, PM me if you got one.
Wagh (Original)
Psychotic DCEmu
Psychotic DCEmu
Posts: 556
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2002 8:46 am
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Post by Wagh (Original) »

Sub Woofer wrote:happened to the happy old helpful DCEmu back when we were newbies? :?
... mind you I was never a dcemu newb. I learned my shit before I came..
Image
MidnightObsidian
Symbiotic Anomaly
Symbiotic Anomaly
Posts: 1234
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2001 12:50 am
Location: Portland, OR, USA
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0
Contact:

Post by MidnightObsidian »

You're right. Quzar, this wasn't anything personal. The thing is, we ALWAYS get questions about replacing core parts of the Dreamcast. The truth is, ANY of these replacements are FAR beyond the capability of anyone here, assuming that the Dreamcast's hardware could even support them. We gets posts like these every month. If it isn't about upgrading the processor, then it's about upgrading the RAM or something else like that. None of it's possible.

Sorry that we were a little harsh on you. I can't emphasize the fact that this wasn't personal enough.
I'm not Clessoulis. Seriously.
BlackAura
DC Developer
DC Developer
Posts: 9951
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2001 9:02 am
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 1 time

Post by BlackAura »

Bit of a pointless question really. Even if the chips were pin-compatible, and someone managed to swap them without damaging either the CPU or the motherboard, what good would it do? You'd still only have 16MB of RAM, and the motherboard's clock would still run at 200MHz (unless the DC has some very weird timing hardware), so you'd get no speed increase either. And the SH-5 instruction set isn't really that far ahead of the SH-4s, so we'd get nothing from it.
MidnightObsidian
Symbiotic Anomaly
Symbiotic Anomaly
Posts: 1234
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2001 12:50 am
Location: Portland, OR, USA
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0
Contact:

Post by MidnightObsidian »

Wagh wrote:
Sub Woofer wrote:happened to the happy old helpful DCEmu back when we were newbies? :?
... mind you I was never a dcemu newb. I learned my poop before I came..
Same here. The only thing I was newbish about was burning. I learned fast and became a CD-Burning mod within a month of finding this site.

Everyone has to start somewhere, though. I remember when I used to try plugging stripped NES cartridges into 8-bit ISA slots on my good ol' 80386 machine. Of course, I was five at the time. I've come a long way from there. >= ) (MCSE IN 2K3!)
I'm not Clessoulis. Seriously.
NiGHTSFTP
Mental DCEmu
Mental DCEmu
Posts: 491
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2001 7:35 pm
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Post by NiGHTSFTP »

MidnightObsidian wrote:Everyone has to start somewhere, though. I remember when I used to try plugging stripped NES cartridges into 8-bit ISA slots on my good ol' 80386 machine. Of course, I was five at the time. I've come a long way from there. >= ) (MCSE IN 2K3!)
High School kid, will go unnamed (no, NOT me), was claimed to have been "fixing" a motherboard for a teacher with a screwdriver in class.

The ultra-slow kids class.

Just a heads up as to the stupidity of... well... retarted kids. :P
Signatures images may be no greater than cock pixels high by dick pixels wide in dimension and balls kilobytes in filesize. Multiple images may be wang, but in total they may not exceed the johnson specifications.
Wagh (Original)
Psychotic DCEmu
Psychotic DCEmu
Posts: 556
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2002 8:46 am
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Post by Wagh (Original) »

er .. you can fix a mobo with a screw and a container of glue :P.
Image
NiGHTSFTP
Mental DCEmu
Mental DCEmu
Posts: 491
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2001 7:35 pm
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Post by NiGHTSFTP »

Anyway.

If anyone is SERIOUS about a CPU upgrade, well.

The series goes...
SH4 -> SH4R -> SH4x

Check into it :)
Signatures images may be no greater than cock pixels high by dick pixels wide in dimension and balls kilobytes in filesize. Multiple images may be wang, but in total they may not exceed the johnson specifications.
diabolus
DCEmu Crazy Poster
DCEmu Crazy Poster
Posts: 28
Joined: Sun Jun 02, 2002 5:30 pm
Location: si, nyc
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Post by diabolus »

um...wagh? i'm not sure, but i think your signature is illegal for me to look at, heh. what is she, like 13? wait...that is a girl right? also - what's with the banana? what is that from? do you like peanut butter....uh, wait...trying to think of what i was going to say before you distracted me, friggin wagh!

ah yes. rather than do upgrades, why not try to make the power supply more efficient? i bet that board could be at least a third smaller than it is.

i have an even better idea, i'll stop typing now. i blame wagh for this post.
woof.
Adri_Magnon
Insane DCEmu
Insane DCEmu
Posts: 134
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2002 10:53 am
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Post by Adri_Magnon »

Hi,
MidnightObsidian wrote:The thing is, we ALWAYS get questions about replacing core parts of the Dreamcast. The truth is, ANY of these replacements are FAR beyond the capability of anyone here, assuming that the Dreamcast's hardware could even support them. We gets posts like these every month. If it isn't about upgrading the processor, then it's about upgrading the RAM or something else like that. None of it's possible.
I totally and without a doubt believe that doing what may be difficult hardware mods is possible. How sure am I? I bought two DCs off ebay to attempt doubling the RAM. However, one DC is not what the listing said so I am talking to the seller about a resolution.

Why would I think this is possible when it is supposedly impossible? First, I thought of questions to ask. Can the DC be modded beyond it's current state? Has anyone done this before? Has anyone done anything close? I saw that there were people who added CD-ROMs and Hard Drives to the DC. It occurred to me that instead of a DC-ROM, an array of RAM could be used. It is definetly possible. I base this off of what I have seen on the sites and some knowledge of computers. But I wanted an easier mod. I asked here and when I recieved very little support or help I asked the great DC Hardware Gods (contacted through their sites) about it. ANd guess what?!? It is definietly a possibility. I was told that there are two possibilities to doing this:

1) "if you find memory chips _with the same pinout_ and twice
the capacity, then yes it would probably work. For this to be
possible the memory configuration of the current chips has to be such
that not all RAS or CAS bits are currently used. I haven't checked
whether this is actually the case. The DRAM controller in the SH4 can
handle up to 64 megs of RAM on the same chip select, but the number of
physical RAS/CAS lines on the motherboard will of course limit the
size of chips you can connect."

2) "Another solution might be to piggy-back RAMs of the same size. You
would then connect all pins except chip select in parallel with the
old RAM chips, and connect the chip select to CS2 on the CPU, which is
unused AFAIK. You'd have to setup the BSC to do refresh manually
before using this memory though, as the boot ROM will not do it for
you. Also, with this approach the new memory would appear _below_ the
old bank.

"I suggest you download the SH4 Hardware Manual and study the chapter
on the BSC. It describes the RAM interface in detail."

So I downloaded and printed out 300+ pages of the 700+ page SH4 Hardware manual.

I am planning to use the second solution.

The first part of any undertaking, besides the initial want, is to learn and ask questions. It is to look for something similar to what you want to do. If noone has done it, find something similar in a different way (RAM in a Saturn). Once you have read a fair amount, you can guage what it'll take. Then you can make a decision of if the reward is worth the risk.

Also, EVERY master started as a student. Every single thing needs to be learned and that requires reading, experimenting, persistence, learning, failures and success. It is the law of the world. Boxers, Singers, Dancers, Doctors, Mailmen, etc.

In short. It is possible. This can be backed up by looking at what has been done to the DC. To think that it can't be done becuase A) it hasn't be done yet and B) you can't do it DOES NOT mean it can't be done. I would say making the DC run X-BOX games without any external or internal hardware mods is damn nera impossible. I say this from what I know about the DC and the X-BOX. BUT, if someone said "I want to mod a DC's hardware to play X-BOX games and I will change whatever needs to be changed," I would say it is very possible.

Second, because one person did it and they could not do it several years before, then anyone cane learn and do the same things or better. There is not only one doctor because others can't learn. There is not only one DC Hardware modder because noone else can do it.

Remember this: If one man can do it, any man can do it! It is the natural way of the world. It might not be easy, but it is completely attainable if you want it enough and if you are willing to learn.

Good Luck,

Adri_Magnon
MidnightObsidian
Symbiotic Anomaly
Symbiotic Anomaly
Posts: 1234
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2001 12:50 am
Location: Portland, OR, USA
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0
Contact:

Post by MidnightObsidian »

Adri_Magnon wrote:If someone said "I want to mod a DC's hardware to play xbox games and I will change whatever needs to be changed," I would say it is very possible.
... I'm speechless.
I'm not Clessoulis. Seriously.
MetalGearRay
DCEmu Ultra Poster
DCEmu Ultra Poster
Posts: 1970
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2002 11:09 am
Location: California
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Post by MetalGearRay »

[quote="diabolus"]um...wagh? i'm not sure, but i think your signature is illegal for me to look at, heh. what is she, like 13? wait...that is a girl right?quote]

Dork. :wink:



Anyway, this whole topic should be closed. It won't work, and even it it would, IT WOULDN'T BE WORTH IT! God, upgrading consoles is just not worth it. (Except modems and N64 expansion pak) We all have computers for that.
Locked