the wii...

General purpose discussion about gaming and emulation.
User avatar
Smiley
DCEmu Ultra Fan
DCEmu Ultra Fan
Posts: 3071
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 9:31 pm
Location: For British Eyes Only...
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

the wii...

Post by Smiley » Thu Dec 18, 2008 12:17 pm

In all honesty, ever since completing galaxy, smash bros, zack and wiki and others, I have spent more time playing emulators on the wii via the homebrew channel than anything else.


I rather dislike these casual games and prefer the more traditional ones. :(
Image
User avatar
DaMadFiddler
Team Screamcast
Team Screamcast
Posts: 7953
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2004 7:17 am
Location: San Francisco, CA
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0
Contact:

Re: the wii...

Post by DaMadFiddler » Thu Dec 18, 2008 1:17 pm

I agree. I was really excited about the Wii when it was first announced, and it just feels like Nintendo has consistently wasted their potential and missed tons of opportunities. Most developers don't even seem to be *trying* to make good games. I'm almost sorry I didn't just stick with my GameCube and save the money.

New Smash Bros. and Mario Kart entries are nice, but I don't really need them. Same thing with Metroid Prime 3. Great game, but my favorite is still the first...and Twilight Princess I could've gotten for GameCube. Most other things just feel like cheap ports, failed ideas, or budget software without the budget price.

Most of the Wii games I have bought or have been looking forward to have turned out to be disappointments. Or, as in the case of games like Okami, Resident Evil 4, and House of the Dead, they're nice to have, but I could have gotten them on systems I already had. The only games that make me glad I have the system are Mario Galaxy and No More Heroes. NMH2 and MadWorld are really the only games I'm looking forward to for the system, now that Free Radical is closing down and likely won't get to finish Timesplitters 4. The Virtual Console is nice, but many of the games are overpriced for the (lack of) features offered, and Nintendo *has* to do something about the storage and menu organization issue, especially with this big push for downloadable games. And don't get me started about Nintendo's online model.

I'm not looking to get rid of my Wii or anything; there are still a few games I really like. Mostly, however, I just use it as a GameCube or an emulation box. I've honestly been using my PS3 much more than the Wii over the year and a half that I've owned them both. The only thing the Wii gets regular use for is Smash Bros., and I could have done that with my GameCube.

Depending on where things go over the course of this generation, I'm really going to have to think hard about getting another Nintendo system. I like my Zelda and my Mario as much as the next person, but it's really not worth buying a whole new system just for one or two games. And you really don't need the latest MarioKart or Smash Bros. game; you just need one of them.
User avatar
Eviltaco64X
DCEmu Mega Poster
DCEmu Mega Poster
Posts: 1638
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:12 pm
Has liked: 1 time
Been liked: 0

Re: the wii...

Post by Eviltaco64X » Thu Dec 18, 2008 2:55 pm

I'm sticking with Gamecube for a few more years.
As I've said on here before, I was a very late adaptor and still have yet to check out a lot of its library.

I'll get the Wii when they build up the VC a lot more, release some more games, drop the price, etc.

Gamecube homebrew is pretty much the same as Wii homebrew too, since it shares a similar architecture.
User avatar
Specially Cork
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 11421
Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2002 10:01 am
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 1 time

Re: the wii...

Post by Specially Cork » Thu Dec 18, 2008 7:50 pm

The Wii's market and technology is never going to push developers.

There's no super-expensive HD next-gen gaming development costs, so huge revenues aren't required to turn a profit. then there's a family gaming market successfully captured, who don't have the high expectations of the hardcore gaming crowd. This is going to lead to laziness, and I can't really blame them.
Image
User avatar
Calavera
DCEmu Classic User
DCEmu Classic User
Posts: 4191
Joined: Sat Aug 03, 2002 3:51 pm
Location: Calacera County
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: the wii...

Post by Calavera » Thu Dec 18, 2008 8:53 pm

It's the Atari 2600 all over again.
Image
cube_b3
Ex-Newsposter
Ex-Newsposter
Posts: 3937
Joined: Tue May 28, 2002 6:51 am
Location: pakistan,karachi
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0
Contact:

Re: the wii...

Post by cube_b3 » Fri Dec 19, 2008 8:00 am

What would've been great was that all Wii games should've been released on Gameucbe and had an SD-Card with them to make them compatible with Wii-mote.

I hounestly feel like throwing my Wii against the wall

and then jump on the broken pieces

Piss over them

Then throw gasoline on it

and burn it

Piss over it again

However since I payed 500 US$ on it, I don't have the heart to do it, but it really drives me up the wall when you buy a PS2 port that doesn't have Gamecube controller or classic controller support and it isn't Nintendo's fault I blame the blind consumers who just buy the in-thing without thinking.
User avatar
melancholy
DCEmu's Ace Attorney
DCEmu's Ace Attorney
Posts: 10966
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2001 12:34 am
Location: Indiana
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: the wii...

Post by melancholy » Fri Dec 19, 2008 5:23 pm

Honestly, I have more good games for my Wii than I have for my 360 and PS3 combined. But even beyond that, the Wii's emulation capabilities is nearing the quality of the original Xbox. Not to mention all the cool stuff you can do with a Wiimote on a computer. In all, I'm satisfied with the Wii and think it's definitely worth having.

Now, having said that, I also must say there is a ton of pure crap being put out for the system on a near weekly basis. Some games are awful to the point where they push a broken game out and bank on the fact that games cannot be returned. Most games have some sort of family focus, which is okay considering the Wii's big target is family play, but it's excessive to the point of frustration. An oversaturation of family friendly crap games is not going to be good for the market in the long run, so Nintendo needs to crack down and put out some quality control or else they might see themselves suffering when they release another console years later.
User avatar
Smiley
DCEmu Ultra Fan
DCEmu Ultra Fan
Posts: 3071
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 9:31 pm
Location: For British Eyes Only...
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: the wii...

Post by Smiley » Sat Dec 20, 2008 12:14 pm

I am looking forward to sega's madworld for the wii and the new puchout. but when ninty re-releases old cube titles (metroid prime 1 and 2) with wii controls to fill the gap for hardcore games, you know there is a slump in that gaterory. why elese would they do this?
Image
User avatar
DuffMan
Psychotic DCEmu
Psychotic DCEmu
Posts: 718
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2001 11:03 pm
Location: Pheonix - AZ
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: the wii...

Post by DuffMan » Sat Dec 20, 2008 3:44 pm

I love my Wii. I use it mainly for emulation, which right now is booming.
OOH! YA! Duffman Says a lot of things.
User avatar
Specially Cork
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 11421
Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2002 10:01 am
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 1 time

Re: the wii...

Post by Specially Cork » Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:47 pm

why elese would they do this?
Easy money.
Image
User avatar
curt_grymala
Theme Inducer
Theme Inducer
Posts: 4274
Joined: Fri May 30, 2003 12:14 pm
Location: Wherever I'm Needed
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0
Contact:

Re: the wii...

Post by curt_grymala » Sat Dec 20, 2008 9:52 pm

I love my Wii. I actually enjoy the silly, fun, casual games.
DCHelp - A Newbie's Best Friend
DC Evolution - Disc Images
DreamZone Forums

I Refuse To Help Anyone That Says They've Tried Everything.
User avatar
DaMadFiddler
Team Screamcast
Team Screamcast
Posts: 7953
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2004 7:17 am
Location: San Francisco, CA
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0
Contact:

Re: the wii...

Post by DaMadFiddler » Sun Dec 21, 2008 5:08 am

melancholy wrote:Honestly, I have more good games for my Wii than I have for my 360 and PS3 combined. But even beyond that, the Wii's emulation capabilities is nearing the quality of the original Xbox. Not to mention all the cool stuff you can do with a Wiimote on a computer. In all, I'm satisfied with the Wii and think it's definitely worth having.
Interesting...I have as many PS3 games as I have Wii games. And most of the Wii games I have are either ports that I could've gotten for Playstation or GameCube even if I didn't have the Wii (Okami, Mercury, RE4, Twilight Princess), or updates to games where I already had (and probably would have been fine with) the previous version (Smash Bros, MarioKart, WarioWare).

I'm not saying there's nothing worth playing on Wii. I'm just saying there isn't incentive to upgrade so far if you already have a GameCube (which can be had for $30 used now) and/or a PS2. There are a few good downloadable offerings, but the Wii's extremely limited space (and even more limited menu capacity) quickly makes an issue of this.

* * *

Now, when it comes to homebrew:
Emulation on the Wii is fairly mature at this point, but there isn't a lot of original homebrew. There's a great *system* in place for it, between the Homebrew Channel and the Homebrew Browser (which lets you download programs from the console itself), but there isn't much that's worth playing.

The good:
- NES, SNES, Genesis, SMS/GG, TG-16, GB/GBC emulation is quite mature. Emulators exist that are full speed, feature-rich, support a plethora of inputs, and have good compatibility.
- as previously mentioned, getting homebrew on the system is a piece of cake. There's a downloadable package where all you have to do is unzip some data to an SD card, load a hacked game save, and the excellent Homebrew Channel is installed on the main system menu for you. Coupled with the Homebrew Browser (which lets you download homebrew directly through the console), you'll need to spend very little time with anything other than the Wii itself to get everything working.
- there is a very good Quake port, which runs well and makes use of the Wii's unique controller.
- useful Wii gaming enhancers exist through the Homebrew Channel, including a region changer for loading imports, a game save manager that lets you back up, download, and move around GameCube saves with your 'Cube memory card, a Wii cheat virtual device (similar to Gameshark), and a few other useful things.

The okay:
- GBA emulation is decent. The leading emulator isn't quite full speed (games run at "full" speed, though there is some frame skipping...more noticeable in some games than others), and the audio is scratch. However, compatibility is high, and once the program is optimized for better speed, it will be on par with the systems listed above.
- SEGA Saturn emulation is passable. This may actually be the first time that Saturn emulation has been ahead of both PSX and N64 emulation on a system. The Saturn emulator works fairly well, but the frame rate is pretty atrocious...and that may or may not improve, due to the problems inherent with Saturn emulation.

The bad:
- N64 emulation is absolutely awful. The program available is very buggy and unstable, there are many graphical glitches, sound makes your ears bleed, and games run at about half speed with a frame rate that is often in the single digits. It exists, but it is almost completely unplayable.
- there are very few actual homebrew games, and most of what's there is really simple. There are a couple of good ports, but most of the homebrew games for Wii are the equivalent of browser games.
- Nintendo's fairly frequent firmware updates keep tightening the noose around the Homebrew Channel, though once you've got it installed it seems to be safe. However, this tightened security is making it increasingly difficult to install.

The ugly:
- there is no decent media playback. There are a few MPlayer ports, but they are barely above the level of command-line programs. Nothing even remotely close to ready for actual use. The system could find a whole new life if someone were to port XBMC or one of its variants (Boxee!), though it would need to utilize a USB or networked drive for storage. However, there are currently no known plans for any such project, and the assortment of "media players" that do exist are still in an embryonic state.
- several prominent omissions in terms of emulation. There is NO Playstation emulator (one is supposedly in development, but is not available for download), the Genesis emulator does not support 32x or SegaCD, there is no *usable* N64 emulation (described above), and the state of arcade emulation (MAME) is pretty awful.
- the file system is messy. The Homebrew Browser downloads programs into their own subdirectories in the Apps folder, but many programs (especially emulators) require a directory tree set up in the root folder in order to function properly.
- in its current state, Wii homebrew is mostly utilized for emulation. The saddest part is that the Wii was *specifically designed* to make pirate emulation unnecessary, through its Virtual Console offerings. However, due to Nintendo's own ridiculousness [see rant above], even people who would be more than willing to pay for their wanted games are turning to emulation, because of the "right" way's extreme limitations.
Orange_Ribbon
DCEmu's Cheerleader
Posts: 2553
Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 7:38 pm
Location: Insert Witty Comment here
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0
Contact:

Re: the wii...

Post by Orange_Ribbon » Sun Dec 21, 2008 11:35 am

I like some of the casual games because I can just goof around with them, but I know what you mean. We already own Mario Cart (little disappointed in it really) Smash, Galaxy, Zelda, Excite Trucks, No More Heroes, and I had such a hard time find a gift for my GF on the system. I ended up finding a copy of Mercury Meltdown Revolution and got it since we love Kokorinpa. Plus there is a difference between casual games, and the Shovel Ware the Wii has is quality.

Casual doesn't mean crap
User avatar
melancholy
DCEmu's Ace Attorney
DCEmu's Ace Attorney
Posts: 10966
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2001 12:34 am
Location: Indiana
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: the wii...

Post by melancholy » Sun Dec 21, 2008 12:38 pm

Interesting...I have as many PS3 games as I have Wii games. And most of the Wii games I have are either ports that I could've gotten for Playstation or GameCube even if I didn't have the Wii (Okami, Mercury, RE4, Twilight Princess), or updates to games where I already had (and probably would have been fine with) the previous version (Smash Bros, MarioKart, WarioWare).
Yeah, but those ports add things like 16:9 and 480p, not to mention typically unique control schemes that make them better on the Wii than the PS2 or Gamecube. I'm not saying that's going to be worth it to everyone, but Okami on the Wii is more beautiful than on PS2. Twilight Princess on the Wii is more fun to control than the Gamecube version. Obviously, it's going to boil down to personal opinion on whether stuff like that is worth it to you or not. But even without the ports, games like Galaxy, World of Goo, No More Heroes, Zack and Wiki, Super Paper Mario...there are plenty of games that are unique to the Wii that are worth owing the system for.

Anyway, I'm not saying the Wii is the best system ever or anything. I've just come to realize that the focus of the Wii isn't on people like you or me, but a whole new crowd of people that have never played games before. And I'm okay with that. If the 360 has all the hardcore games that I want to play and the Wii only gets 3-4 killer game titles a year, then fine. The only real worry I have for the Wii is that Nintendo isn't going to do anything about this constant stream of shovelware and it will eventually bury the system.
User avatar
Eviltaco64X
DCEmu Mega Poster
DCEmu Mega Poster
Posts: 1638
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:12 pm
Has liked: 1 time
Been liked: 0

Re: the wii...

Post by Eviltaco64X » Sun Dec 21, 2008 12:57 pm

Xbox is still the emulation king by far.
N64, PS1, and CPS3 are fullspeed. :)
Lartrak
DCEmu Respected
DCEmu Respected
Posts: 6166
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2002 9:28 pm
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: the wii...

Post by Lartrak » Sun Dec 21, 2008 5:49 pm

Someone clear this up. Do you still need Twilight Princess for the homebrew channel? I had it, but sold it. Don't think I'm willing to rebuy it.

Also, has anyone had any update-related issues with the homebrew channel?
How to be a Conservative:
You have to believe everything that has ever gone wrong in the history of your country was due to Liberals.
User avatar
not just souLLy now
DCEmu Respected
DCEmu Respected
Posts: 4039
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 5:53 pm
Location: UK
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: the wii...

Post by not just souLLy now » Sun Dec 21, 2008 6:09 pm

You need Twilight Princess once, to install the Homebrew Channel, but not after that
User avatar
DaMadFiddler
Team Screamcast
Team Screamcast
Posts: 7953
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2004 7:17 am
Location: San Francisco, CA
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0
Contact:

Re: the wii...

Post by DaMadFiddler » Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:51 pm

Soully is right. So if you don't have the channel installed, you could just rent the game, or borrow it from a friend.

Also: once the Homebrew Channel is installed, it seems to be fine. The firmware updates break the exploit that's used for the initial install (which is why they have to keep updating the Twilight Hack), but do not seem to do anything to the channel itself. I've been through two firmware updates with no trouble.
Lartrak
DCEmu Respected
DCEmu Respected
Posts: 6166
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2002 9:28 pm
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: the wii...

Post by Lartrak » Sun Dec 21, 2008 11:25 pm

DaMadFiddler wrote:Soully is right. So if you don't have the channel installed, you could just rent the game, or borrow it from a friend.

Also: once the Homebrew Channel is installed, it seems to be fine. The firmware updates break the exploit that's used for the initial install (which is why they have to keep updating the Twilight Hack), but do not seem to do anything to the channel itself. I've been through two firmware updates with no trouble.
Funny, I know several people who had the game. All but one sold it, and the one who didn't has a Japanese copy. Blah, I may have to rent it..
How to be a Conservative:
You have to believe everything that has ever gone wrong in the history of your country was due to Liberals.
User avatar
Smiley
DCEmu Ultra Fan
DCEmu Ultra Fan
Posts: 3071
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 9:31 pm
Location: For British Eyes Only...
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: the wii...

Post by Smiley » Sat Dec 27, 2008 2:02 pm

I've been playing mother 3 with the english translation on the gba emu for the wii the past several weeks on and off; its pure bliss...I love the mother franchise.
Image
Post Reply