Dead 60GB PS3 owners owned

[|darc|]

http://arstechnica.com/journals/thumbs. ... ut-of-luck

One of the concerns that arose for owners of the 60GB PlayStation 3 following the discontinuation of the model was that defective units couldn't be replaced. Both Ben and I own 60GB units and we, too, share this concern. Unfortunately, it looks like the answer is as feared: there simply won't be stock to replace the units.

A European poster on popular gaming community NeoGAF had the misfortune of having his 60GB PlayStation 3 unit die on him. Over a month had passed after he'd sent it in to Sony without word, so he called the company to find out what the situation was. The customer service agent responded with the following disheartening remark:

Sorry we don't have any stock of the 60GB left and we don't know when a shipment will arrive to replace your unit. Call back in two to four weeks for an update.

With little hope on the horizon, the poster expressed his concern that his unit will have been gone for almost three months by the time he can get his next status update, let alone the actual unit. Sony's multi-SKU strategy has been largely criticized and this is one of the many side effects. Though the defect rate for the PlayStation 3 is low, especially when compared to a certain other console, this could still pose some serious problems for Sony in the long run.

Ben's Thoughts
I absolutely adore my launch-day 60GB model. With all the updates it has all the features of the modern systems, as well as full hardware backwards compatibility; my PS2 and PSone games see much use in the unit. I know I would be upset if I had to downgrade into a unit that didn't have such strong backwards compatibility, and this news that Sony may not have stock for repairs is rather depressing.

Luckily, so far I haven't had a single problem with the unit: the PS3 hardware seems to be rock solid.

[Ex-Cyber]

That sucks. I keep hoping that Sony will substantially improve the emulation code so that people who own other models can have a similarly nice experience with PS2 games, but if they're working on it they're sure being quiet about it, and the interface to their compatibility database doesn't exactly make it easy to get a bird's-eye view of it (which I'm sure is intentional).

[Nico0020]

so what was the reason for sony switching to software emulation instead?

[|darc|]

so what was the reason for sony switching to software emulation instead?

I would assume decreased production costs.

[melancholy]

That sucks. I keep hoping that Sony will substantially improve the emulation code so that people who own other models can have a similarly nice experience with PS2 games

Except the 80GB model is discontinued as well (at least in the US), and that was the one with emulation. The only one currently in production is the 40GB one, and that has no emulation whatsoever. So if you send a broken PS3 to Sony that's unrepairable, you're probably going to be stuck with a 40GB one as a replacement.

[Ex-Cyber]

so what was the reason for sony switching to software emulation instead?

I would assume decreased production costs.

Yeah; I'm convinced that they wanted to do full emulation from the start, but used the full-blown EE/GS chips because they didn't want to delay the launch (cf. only speccing 7 SPEs). As far as I know, "Software BC" models replaced the EE with emulation (AFAIK, the IOP was emulated from the start; aside from having a lot in common with PS1, the actual PS3 I/O hardware is so different that hooking up a real IOP wouldn't do much good), but kept the GS. The 40GB model then removed the GS, but didn't replace it with emulation, which is why it doesn't run PS2 games. I think there's a good chance that there's a half-finished GS emulator somewhere in SCEI; the big question to me is this: did Sony drop GS ahead of the emu development curve because they were desperate for a cost reduction, or did they drop the goal of PS2 compatibility in general? The latter seems like a bad move, given their plans for PS3 to stick around for 10+ years and the potential for selling PS2 games on PSN a few years down the road...

[impetus]

I just know that if my PS3 goes out, I will be super pissed.

[BlackAura]

Why can't they send him back a different model, but with the hard drive from his old one? The 80GB model, aside from not having hardware B/C, has the same features as the 60GB model did.

[melancholy]

Why can't they send him back a different model, but with the hard drive from his old one? The 80GB model, aside from not having hardware B/C, has the same features as the 60GB model did.

But that's the point, it's the one that has hardware backwards compatibility. 70% of my PS3 use is backwards compatibility so if they gave me an 80GB, I'd be really pissed.

[Nyarlathotep]

Except the 80GB model is discontinued as well (at least in the US), and that was the one with emulation. The only one currently in production is the 40GB one, and that has no emulation whatsoever. So if you send a broken PS3 to Sony that's unrepairable, you're probably going to be stuck with a 40GB one as a replacement.

The 80Gb isn't discontinued in the US... the upcoming MGS4 bundle is an 80Gb.

Why can't they send him back a different model, but with the hard drive from his old one? The 80GB model, aside from not having hardware B/C, has the same features as the 60GB model did.

The US 80Gb is the same as the Euro 60Gb, but the Euro 60Gb has been discontinued.
You can only buy non-BC PS3s from Sony in Europe (and Japan) currently.
The US is the only market that currently has multiple SKUs.

But that's the point, it's the one that has hardware backwards compatibility. 70% of my PS3 use is backwards compatibility so if they gave me an 80GB, I'd be really pissed.

Again, this guy is from Europe. Europe has only ever had one SKU, and it has never had hardware BC.
Emulated BC is actually extremely good on the PS3, with an extremely high percentage of titles fully playable, and there are stealth updates in every firmware thats been released showing Sony still are working on it. I'd imagine Sonys longterm goal is still full software BC, but I suspect they don't come out and say it because if they cannot achieve it then they'll just get called out for 'lying' and 'broken promises'.

I'm still not entirely sure why one single persons problems with a broken console is considered news though...

[melancholy]

Except the 80GB model is discontinued as well (at least in the US), and that was the one with emulation. The only one currently in production is the 40GB one, and that has no emulation whatsoever. So if you send a broken PS3 to Sony that's unrepairable, you're probably going to be stuck with a 40GB one as a replacement.

The 80Gb isn't discontinued in the US... the upcoming MGS4 bundle is an 80Gb.

I didn't know that at the time when I posted this a month ago. As of right now, the 40GB is the only console available.

[|darc|]

Again, this guy is from Europe. Europe has only ever had one SKU, and it has never had hardware BC.
Emulated BC is actually extremely good on the PS3, with an extremely high percentage of titles fully playable, and there are stealth updates in every firmware thats been released showing Sony still are working on it. I'd imagine Sonys longterm goal is still full software BC, but I suspect they don't come out and say it because if they cannot achieve it then they'll just get called out for 'lying' and 'broken promises'.

I'm still not entirely sure why one single persons problems with a broken console is considered news though...

Jagex fired you and you're working for Sony now?

[BlackAura]

The US 80Gb is the same as the Euro 60Gb, but the Euro 60Gb has been discontinued.
You can only buy non-BC PS3s from Sony in Europe (and Japan) currently.
The US is the only market that currently has multiple SKUs.

Ah, OK. So that's marginally less confusing than I thought...

I'm not quite sure what the big deal is then. Both models actually have backwards compatibility, so it's not as if he's actually losing any features. Had this been in Europe, where the only available SKU is the non-BC 40GB model, there would have been a problem.

[Ex-Cyber]

I'd imagine Sonys longterm goal is still full software BC, but I suspect they don't come out and say it because if they cannot achieve it then they'll just get called out for 'lying' and 'broken promises'.

This seems plausible, considering some of the negative reactions that 360's BC got (and mostly deserved), not to mention that Sony probably has much more to lose by screwing it up than MS ever did.

[Nyarlathotep]

I didn't know that at the time when I posted this a month ago. As of right now, the 40GB is the only console available.

My bad, I didn't see how old this topic was. it wasn't even half way down the front page.

...do people here not talk about videogames anymore or something?

It is pretty odd that Sony apparently have an entire hardware revision and mobo design only for the NA market though, it would make more financial sense to only have one factory producing one type of SKU globally with the unimportant things like HDD size and software pack-ins tailored at a regional level.

Jagex fired you and you're working for Sony now?

No and no.

Not entirely sure what my job has to do with me correcting erroneous information though, but the way you keep bringing it up means you must be really really really interested in my career.

I'll make sure I make a topic here when my Developer column in Edge magazine gets printed so you know all about it!

If you're trying to imply I have some kind of agenda here, well - I guess "Dead 60GB PS3 owners owned" is a more accurate title than "Single Dead 60Gb PS3 Owner Marginally Inconvenienced For 2 Months" amirite?

I'm not quite sure what the big deal is then. Both models actually have backwards compatibility, so it's not as if he's actually losing any features. Had this been in Europe, where the only available SKU is the non-BC 40GB model, there would have been a problem.

This guy is from Europe, which is why he's pissed

I still don't think one guy from a messageboard much better than this one having problems with customer support is a particularly newsworthy topic though, outside of ammo for astroturfers and FUD-spreaders.

This seems plausible, considering some of the negative reactions that 360's BC got (and mostly deserved), not to mention that Sony probably has much more to lose by screwing it up than MS ever did.

Outside of Peter Moores asinine "under promised and over delivered" statements about 360 BC, I'm actually pretty happy with it - it plays JSRF now, and that was pretty much my biggest gripe.

I'm still pretty surprised that Sony haven't managed to emulate the GS though, I always thought that the Emotion Engine would be the harder component to emulate than the Graphics Synthesiser given most of the features it offers in hardware can be done in software calls and how many games for the PS2 were written in middleware for ease of porting anyway.

I'd also imagine that if Sony ever does achieve full software emulation, they would probably sell it as an 'optional upgrade' on the PSN rather than rolling it out in future firmwares, as I suspect people with the early HW-BC models wouldn't necessarily want to remove that functionality and go a software-only emulation route which would inevitably result in lowered compatibility.

[BlackAura]

This guy is from Europe, which is why he's pissed

D'oh. Probably should have re-read the article before mentioning that.

[Ex-Cyber]

This seems plausible, considering some of the negative reactions that 360's BC got (and mostly deserved), not to mention that Sony probably has much more to lose by screwing it up than MS ever did.

Outside of Peter Moores asinine "under promised and over delivered" statements about 360 BC, I'm actually pretty happy with it - it plays JSRF now, and that was pretty much my biggest gripe.

Around half of the library is still unsupported, including the only Xbox1 game I own that I expect to want to play again (although I could just buy the PS2 version of that one).

I'm still pretty surprised that Sony haven't managed to emulate the GS though, I always thought that the Emotion Engine would be the harder component to emulate than the Graphics Synthesiser given most of the features it offers in hardware can be done in software calls and how many games for the PS2 were written in middleware for ease of porting anyway.

I suspect that they have emulated it, but not with the accuracy/compatibility that they want. Perhaps the RSX is different enough that accurate acceleration is difficult, which would leave them with trying to implement the whole thing on Cell. While Cell is a lot more powerful than it's usually given credit for, doing both EE emulation and GS rendering seems like a stretch (although Brian Paul and Keith Whitwell are working on a Cell-optimized OpenGL renderer, so it seems there is some untapped potential in that general vein).

I'd also imagine that if Sony ever does achieve full software emulation, they would probably sell it as an 'optional upgrade' on the PSN rather than rolling it out in future firmwares, as I suspect people with the early HW-BC models wouldn't necessarily want to remove that functionality and go a software-only emulation route which would inevitably result in lowered compatibility.

I'm not sure where you're coming from here. Sony already ships more than one PS2 emulator (or configuration) in firmware - one that only emulates I/O, for launch PS3s, and one that also emulates EE, for the Euro 60GB / US 80GB models. Adding another shouldn't be a problem.

[Specially Cork]

My PS3 ended up being a 60GB one. Not really by choice, but here in China we're kinda limited. It's pretty pointless to have here though. I don't know anywhere that sells legit PS2/PS1 games here, and all the legit ones I have aren't Asian region (Hong Kong, Taiwan, Korea) so I just have some extra GB to play with I guess.

The whole warranty thing is irrelevant here anyway. I'm not even supposed to own one, there's no way I'd get it fixed if it breaks. That's the main reason I opted away from a 360. Old stock + the red ring of death could see me with a very expensive paperweight.