Yet another reason why the PS3 is toast.

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Re: Yet another reason why the PS3 is toast.

Post by TyBO » Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:57 pm

Veggita2099 wrote: EDIT

I don't see how the PS3 not getting this game is going to make it Toast.
[Off-Topic:]Well, now the PS3 ain't getting the new Splinter Cell, apparently it's not capable of handling the AI.

http://digg.com/gaming_news/PS3_can_t_d ... r_Cell_dev
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Re: Yet another reason why the PS3 is toast.

Post by Ceeg » Wed Aug 15, 2007 3:42 pm

I think Sony might as well start waving the white flag and surrender at this point. :lol:
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Re: Yet another reason why the PS3 is toast.

Post by Code-Red » Wed Aug 15, 2007 3:55 pm

Ceeg wrote:I think Sony might as well start waving the white flag and surrender at this point. :lol:
Blu-Ray will go with it if they do, so it will be a long time until then my friend.
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Re: Yet another reason why the PS3 is toast.

Post by Specially Cork » Wed Aug 15, 2007 4:25 pm

I'm sure it does have the capability to handle the AI, it's just finding that capability that's the problem. All i've heard from developers recently is how overly complex the PS3 is, and how difficult and expensive it is to develop for.

In many ways this is worse, because you've got an immensely powerful machine with loads of potential, but nobody can find a decent way into it.
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Re: Yet another reason why the PS3 is toast.

Post by Veggita2099 » Wed Aug 15, 2007 11:23 pm

BoneyCork wrote:I'm sure it does have the capability to handle the AI, it's just finding that capability that's the problem. All i've heard from developers recently is how overly complex the PS3 is, and how difficult and expensive it is to develop for.

In many ways this is worse, because you've got an immensely powerful machine with loads of potential, but nobody can find a decent way into it.
Sounds like the Sega Saturn all over again? Wasn't that one of the set backs of the Saturn was it was difficult to program for?
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Re: Yet another reason why the PS3 is toast.

Post by mrandyk » Wed Aug 15, 2007 11:25 pm

Yes, the potential was tere but was never reached some say. If you have seen videos of Shenmue on the Saturn you would know what I am talking about when they really got the hardware working.
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Re: Yet another reason why the PS3 is toast.

Post by Code-Red » Wed Aug 15, 2007 11:30 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUe9ASlu9Us

For those who haven't seen it.
Saturn Article on Wiki wrote:Sega's 27-member Away Team, comprising employees from every aspect of hardware engineering, product development and marketing, worked exclusively for two years to ensure the Sega Saturn's hardware and design met the precise needs of both the U.S. and Japanese markets. The Saturn was a powerful machine for the time, but its design, with two CPUs and 6 other processors, made harnessing its power extremely difficult. Many of the ancillary chips in the system were "off of the shelf" components. This increased the complexity of the design since less custom hardware was used. Rumors suggest that the original design called for a single central processor, but a second processor was added late in development to increase potential performance.
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Re: Yet another reason why the PS3 is toast.

Post by Ex-Cyber » Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:28 am

BoneyCork wrote:All i've heard from developers recently is how overly complex the PS3 is, and how difficult and expensive it is to develop for.
I think it's fair to say that PS2 held roughly the same position in the last generation; as such I'm not sure what bearing this realistically has on PS3's success. This sort of thing is subjective as well - someone working on a game that's going to go to PC/PS2/PS3/Wii/360/Jaguar is going to have a different perspective on Cell than someone working on something specifically for PS3.
Code-Red wrote:Would you rather walk in a straight line, or through a maze to get somewhere the fastest?
Every console is a maze - some are just more worthwhile than others to bother exploring.
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Re: Yet another reason why the PS3 is toast.

Post by sixteen-bit » Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:58 pm

Ex-Cyber wrote:I think it's fair to say that PS2 held roughly the same position in the last generation; as such I'm not sure what bearing this realistically has on PS3's success.
The PS2 also sold at least five times as many consoles as its nearest competitor so you had two choices as a developer last gen:
-Take a 75% hit in potential sales or,
-Develop for PS2

The playstation doesn't have that luxury this time round.
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Re: Yet another reason why the PS3 is toast.

Post by Ex-Cyber » Thu Aug 16, 2007 5:34 pm

sixteen-bit wrote:
Ex-Cyber wrote:I think it's fair to say that PS2 held roughly the same position in the last generation; as such I'm not sure what bearing this realistically has on PS3's success.
The PS2 also sold at least five times as many consoles as its nearest competitor so you had two choices as a developer last gen:
-Take a 75% hit in potential sales or,
-Develop for PS2

The playstation doesn't have that luxury this time round.
Neither did the PS2 when it launched.
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Re: Yet another reason why the PS3 is toast.

Post by |darc| » Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:43 pm

Ex-Cyber wrote:
sixteen-bit wrote:
Ex-Cyber wrote:I think it's fair to say that PS2 held roughly the same position in the last generation; as such I'm not sure what bearing this realistically has on PS3's success.
The PS2 also sold at least five times as many consoles as its nearest competitor so you had two choices as a developer last gen:
-Take a 75% hit in potential sales or,
-Develop for PS2

The playstation doesn't have that luxury this time round.
Neither did the PS2 when it launched.
The PlayStation 2 launched under perfect conditions. DVD playback had just become affordable to stick in a console. It launched in an empty market, besides the Dreamcast, which Sony had done a pretty good job of smearing, which was helped by Sega's poor history with the Saturn. PlayStation was extremely successful. There was little confidence in the Xbox and few people initially knew about it besides hardcore gamers, and it wasn't out yet. The Gamecube also wasn't out and few were looking forward to it because of a lack of titles and Nintendo's poor history with the N64.

By the time the Xbox and Gamecube came out the PlayStation 2 had mostly destroyed the Dreamcast and it was in the market basically alone.
It's thinking...
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Re: Yet another reason why the PS3 is toast.

Post by Ex-Cyber » Thu Aug 16, 2007 8:04 pm

|darc| wrote:
Ex-Cyber wrote:
sixteen-bit wrote:
Ex-Cyber wrote:I think it's fair to say that PS2 held roughly the same position in the last generation; as such I'm not sure what bearing this realistically has on PS3's success.
The PS2 also sold at least five times as many consoles as its nearest competitor so you had two choices as a developer last gen:
-Take a 75% hit in potential sales or,
-Develop for PS2

The playstation doesn't have that luxury this time round.
Neither did the PS2 when it launched.
The PlayStation 2 launched under perfect conditions. DVD playback had just become affordable to stick in a console. It launched in an empty market, besides the Dreamcast, which Sony had done a pretty good job of smearing, which was helped by Sega's poor history with the Saturn. PlayStation was extremely successful. There was little confidence in the Xbox and few people initially knew about it besides hardcore gamers, and it wasn't out yet. The Gamecube also wasn't out and few were looking forward to it because of a lack of titles and Nintendo's poor history with the N64.

By the time the Xbox and Gamecube came out the PlayStation 2 had mostly destroyed the Dreamcast and it was in the market basically alone.
None of which says that difficulty/expense of development is a key factor in a console's success or failure.
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Re: Yet another reason why the PS3 is toast.

Post by APE » Sat Aug 18, 2007 9:51 am

Ex-Cyber wrote:
|darc| wrote:
Ex-Cyber wrote:
sixteen-bit wrote:
Ex-Cyber wrote:I think it's fair to say that PS2 held roughly the same position in the last generation; as such I'm not sure what bearing this realistically has on PS3's success.
The PS2 also sold at least five times as many consoles as its nearest competitor so you had two choices as a developer last gen:
-Take a 75% hit in potential sales or,
-Develop for PS2

The playstation doesn't have that luxury this time round.
Neither did the PS2 when it launched.
The PlayStation 2 launched under perfect conditions. DVD playback had just become affordable to stick in a console. It launched in an empty market, besides the Dreamcast, which Sony had done a pretty good job of smearing, which was helped by Sega's poor history with the Saturn. PlayStation was extremely successful. There was little confidence in the Xbox and few people initially knew about it besides hardcore gamers, and it wasn't out yet. The Gamecube also wasn't out and few were looking forward to it because of a lack of titles and Nintendo's poor history with the N64.

By the time the Xbox and Gamecube came out the PlayStation 2 had mostly destroyed the Dreamcast and it was in the market basically alone.
None of which says that difficulty/expense of development is a key factor in a console's success or failure.
Difficulty/expense means nothing when theres only 1 real leader.
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Re: Yet another reason why the PS3 is toast.

Post by Ex-Cyber » Sat Aug 18, 2007 6:10 pm

APE wrote:Difficulty/expense means nothing when theres only 1 real leader.
This is entirely consistent with what I said in my last post:
Ex-Cyber wrote:None of which says that difficulty/expense of development is a key factor in a console's success or failure.
I think it's true that I was unfairly discounting the launch conditions, which were unusually good by most any standard. But because of PS2's position, the only conclusion we can reasonably draw is that a "difficult" architecture/SDK won't cause failure when conditions are good in other respects. PS3 obviously doesn't have the same conditions, but it doesn't follow that the architecture will cause failure. Anyway, I believe that some people are overemphasizing this aspect of PS3 (and Saturn, for that matter). There are definitely some portability concerns that arise from Cell's unusual architecture, but you absolutely don't need to be some kind of genius to write SPE code - there are C compilers, libraries, and so on that are readily available. As I said though, this is largely subjective - a programmer who got started with Windows/DirectX will naturally be more comfortable with 360's approach to developer support, for example.
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Re: Yet another reason why the PS3 is toast.

Post by melancholy » Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:01 am

Bumping this topic to announce:

Beautiful Katamari demo on Live right now!!!
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Re: Yet another reason why the PS3 is toast.

Post by melancholy » Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:39 am

...wow. Shortest demo ever. A timed three minute level. And nothing about it that's really new, apart from the high resolution of the 360. They literally took everything from the PS2 version and slapped it onto the 360. Granted, this is Katamari Damacy we are talking about, a game made famous by it's limited visual elements, so you can't judge from that. Still, I hope they add something new to make it worth another purchase.
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Re: Yet another reason why the PS3 is toast.

Post by butters » Wed Aug 22, 2007 6:37 am

There are two key reasons the PS3 will never have the success that the PS2 had. The first was being late to market, giving the competition time to establish themselves in people's homes. The other reason is the price, which is too high for the average gamer to afford, along with the lack of any must have games.
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Re: Yet another reason why the PS3 is toast.

Post by Ex-Cyber » Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:43 am

butters wrote:There are two key reasons the PS3 will never have the success that the PS2 had. The first was being late to market, giving the competition time to establish themselves in people's homes. The other reason is the price, which is too high for the average gamer to afford, along with the lack of any must have games.
Yeah; I think that last one is the real killer. Things might change when stuff like White Knight Story, MGS4, Final Fantasy XIII et. al. start coming out, but I'm not exactly counting on it.
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Re: Yet another reason why the PS3 is toast.

Post by politoe » Wed Aug 22, 2007 2:41 pm

...And two of the mentioned titles might not be exclusive. So that won't help the much.
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Re: Yet another reason why the PS3 is toast.

Post by Ex-Cyber » Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:09 pm

politoe wrote:...And two of the mentioned titles might not be exclusive. So that won't help the much.
Two? MGS4 is an obvious candidate (the series has a history of being cross-platform, with MGS3 being the only major exception that comes to mind), but I haven't heard anything at all - let alone anything solid - about FFXIII or White Knight Story being on another console. If memory serves, FF has always been an exclusive franchise (leaving aside remakes, spinoffs, and the occasional PC port), and I can't find any mention of Level 5 having anything to do with Xbox development.
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