Fullspeed xBox Emulation

General purpose discussion about gaming and emulation.
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Post by Mr. Jones » Tue Apr 13, 2004 10:56 am

"Pretty much because the Xbox is a lazily put together system of essentially off-the-shelf PC parts."

Lazily put together. Lovely. :roll:

It took Microsoft over a year to design and develop the Xbox. Because of hardware similarities to a PC, the Xbox is one of the easier consoles to program for, its hard drive is rediculously upgradable, it is readily able to play games online, and is more likely to have drops in price because prices of components are cheaper than the other current consoles.

I swear, some kids say stuff that makes them sound positively ignorant... :cry:
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Post by az_bont » Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:02 am

Those price drops are more to do with lack of sales. Microsoft has always been losing money on every console they sell, hoping to make it up in software sales.
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Post by Lartrak » Tue Apr 13, 2004 2:34 pm

Mr. Jones wrote:"Pretty much because the Xbox is a lazily put together system of essentially off-the-shelf PC parts."

Lazily put together. Lovely. :roll:

It took Microsoft over a year to design and develop the Xbox. Because of hardware similarities to a PC, the Xbox is one of the easier consoles to program for, its hard drive is rediculously upgradable, it is readily able to play games online, and is more likely to have drops in price because prices of components are cheaper than the other current consoles.

I swear, some kids say stuff that makes them sound positively ignorant... :cry:
I was being facetious. Sorry if it didn't come across.
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Post by Quzar » Wed Apr 14, 2004 3:11 pm

DaMadFiddler wrote:I'm sure there are those who can explain it better than I can, such as Ian or BlackAura. But here's a VERY basic run-down of it:

Many systems, such as the NES and the Genesis, are emulated by having the machine run software simulators of the major hardware components and running the game data through that, so that it processes exactly as it would on the original machine. This can take a LOT of memory and CPU speed, since in addition to running the actual software (the game), it has to run virtual versions of all the HARDWARE that the software is running on. This is what's known as "low-level emulation" as it's emulating the base hardware itself.

Programs such as CXBX and UltraHLE rely largely on another method known as "high-level emulation (HLE)," which is sometimes harder to code but MUCH more system-efficient. Rather than running virtual hardware simulations, it simply serves as a "bridge" between the functions the software (the game) is trying to use, and the hardware/software your PC actually has in it. The xBox is an ideal candidate for HLE, because its hardware is very similar to that of a PC, and it actually runs its games using chunks of an operating system very similar to the core of the Windows you have on your computer. That's a major oversimplification, but I hope it gets the basic gist across. Refer to BlackAura's post above for a more accurate description of HLE.
in efforts to thwart soon to be attempts asking for HLE of other systems... HLE is used to emulate the end result as opposed to the actual working of a system. normal emulators emulate the inner working of the system. if you have a setup where you can determine from a set of premade things what will happen when certain input is given, why calculate it? these are the fundamentals of HLE. HLE isnt used very much though because no only are most systems harder to emulate using HLE, but most emulators are created for the purpose of most correctly emulating the working of a system not just the output.
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Post by BlackAura » Wed Apr 14, 2004 10:35 pm

And most system's can't be emulated in this way. The N64 and the Xbox are the only ones that come to mind, because all N64 games used the same libraries instead of directly programming the hardware, and because all Xbox games use DirectX instead of directly programming the hardware.
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Post by ETR » Wed Apr 14, 2004 11:36 pm

To the Geforce FX comment, I run a Voodoo3. Not everyone needs an ATI Radeon 9600, which I'm guessing is about the performance level you consider decent.

Mr. Jones: Most consoles take more than a bloody year to design. On top of that, how do you explain the revisions of the xbx design to prevent people from ripping the parts out for their own PCs?
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Post by Vchat20 » Fri Apr 16, 2004 10:32 pm

very good news imo. there are a bunch of games id love to get that are xbox exclusive (ie. Midtown Madness 3) and unfortunately, i dont have plas to get an xbox anytime soon because of the price. once cxbx runs mm3 ill start worshipping it and youll see me playing mm3 on my pc.

btw, can someone explain the specifics of the xbox game dvd's? are they anything special or just normal dvd's?
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Post by Skynet » Sat Apr 17, 2004 5:31 am

btw, can someone explain the specifics of the xbox game dvd's? are they anything special or just normal dvd's?
I read somewhere that the number of characters on the dvd is limited. To what number, I can't remember. And apparently (this is just what I've read) they have some sort of protection to stop them from being put directly into a DVD drive. Apparently, again lol, the only program that can copy a Xb DVD is called DVD Wizard Pro. Which you can buy or... :twisted: Also, there is no trial of this software, only purchasing it or other means :twisted:
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Post by SchmuckofNI » Sat Apr 17, 2004 6:50 pm

I believe sony did the same thing when the psx whas first released. They lost money on their hardware, but made it back from the software.
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Post by ace » Sat Apr 17, 2004 6:55 pm

^Like many companies. It makes a lot of sense, sell the consoles at a good price, and lose a little bit on the hardware, but then gain it all back with the software.
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Post by Quzar » Sat Apr 17, 2004 7:31 pm

actually its usually "make very little on hardware, make it back on software". with that way, they can drop the price if needed and still be not losing too much.
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Post by MKE » Sat Apr 17, 2004 9:31 pm

ok, reading some post's on this emu at other places (and a few here) i think some people dont completly understand (ill edit this if im wrong) but:

The "emulator" isnt running that off of an xbox dvd. There is still no way for a pc to view the content of an xbox game disc. Yes, it is an emulator but you still need a rip of the game, so you either need to get a copy from newsgroups or bittorrent, etc, or you still need an xbox or a friend with a modded xbox to rip the game from.

I dont knwo the very spec's of the xbox dvd's but i do know that (i just mod the systems, dont really care to much about the spec's except where the lpc points are and where the tsop jumper points are) but maybe someone else here has some more info on the xbox dvd format.

I havent used this emu in a while (tested it a whiiiilllleeee ago fro #xbins with a few homebrew games) but does it/ or is it mentioned that it will include the driver's so you can just put the usb mod on the c0ntroller cord, hook it up to your pc and use the xbox controller that way?

anyway, hope that clears something's up for the ppl that thought they could just go and buy the games, pop them in there dvd drive and have a ball with them.
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Post by DaMadFiddler » Sat Apr 17, 2004 9:36 pm

If it has DirectX controller support, it should work with any commercial converter-box. I have a Saturn/DC/PSX to USB converter that I use for most of my PC gaming.
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Post by BlackAura » Sun Apr 18, 2004 1:33 am

If it has DirectX controller support, it should work with any commercial converter-box.
You don't need one for an Xbox controller. It's actually a USB controller anyway, but it needs custom drivers (which are available). Just rip the plug off the end and replace it with a standard USB plug (or do that to a controller extension cable), install the drivers, and it works as any controller does...
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Post by Hawq » Sun Apr 18, 2004 7:35 am

Or you can if you're good with a soldering iron add a usb connecter to the pad without takin the end off so it can be used for both xbox and pc, just match up the colours, the yellow being for the memory cards and can be ignored of course
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Post by Vchat20 » Thu Apr 22, 2004 7:31 pm

this may be a slight bit OT, and probably the wrong people to ask, but anyone got any idea exactly what it is that prevents games except turok from working? and any ideas when more games will become supported?
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Post by Quzar » Thu Apr 22, 2004 7:42 pm

The only reason Turok is working is because that is the only game the creator has, so it has been coded specifically to that.
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Post by zero » Thu May 20, 2004 8:05 am

I really like the sound of this emu, ripping the games to hdd wouldnt be a problem for me, id really only want this emu cos my gf is almost all the time using my xbox and i never really get a chance to play any of my games thanks to her.
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Post by melancholy » Thu May 20, 2004 3:11 pm

quzar wrote:The only reason Turok is working is because that is the only game the creator has, so it has been coded specifically to that.
He probably got it for free from someone. Or recieved it as a punishment.
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Post by Quall » Sat May 22, 2004 6:02 pm

MKE wrote: The "emulator" isnt running that off of an xbox dvd. There is still no way for a pc to view the content of an xbox game disc. Yes, it is an emulator but you still need a rip of the game, so you either need to get a copy from newsgroups or bittorrent, etc, or you still need an xbox or a friend with a modded xbox to rip the game from.

I dont know the very spec's of the xbox dvd's but i do know that (i just mod the systems, dont really care to much about the spec's except where the lpc points are and where the tsop jumper points are) but maybe someone else here has some more info on the xbox dvd format.
True. The xbox gamedisk is encrypted with a key only known to MS. They have to sign any disk in order for it to run on an unmodded xbox. As to why a PC cannot read it, well, it is burned in a format that the PC cannot read. If you have ever burnt an xbox game disk after creating a "xbox iso" image, it will not read in your PC afterwords do to its format, even though it is on a standard dvd disk.

AS from what I can tell, this emulator looks pretty promising. I mean, I have my own "pimped" out xbox, but it will still be cool to be able to see the games running on a PC, even if I will never play on one.
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