Dreamcast Classic

General purpose discussion about gaming and emulation.
Post Reply
User avatar
politoe
DCEmu Cool Poster
DCEmu Cool Poster
Posts: 1001
https://www.artistsworkshop.eu/meble-kuchenne-na-wymiar-warszawa-gdzie-zamowic/
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 10:07 pm
Location: Los Angeles
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 1 time

Dreamcast Classic

Post by politoe »

With recent 90s Megadrive/Genesis.
Who knows if well see a Saturn Classic.
DC classic a possibility.
What games will come included?
•••
Been getting reeled in by Amano, didnt know he worked on El Dorado Gate, and has uncredited work with a game by the same developers of Dragons Lair
|darc|
DCEmu Webmaster
DCEmu Webmaster
Posts: 16373
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2001 6:00 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Has thanked: 103 times
Been thanked: 90 times
Contact:

Re: Dreamcast Classic

Post by |darc| »

I don't see it happening. There's no hardware they could use to accurately emulate the DC that would also be cheap enough.
It's thinking...
User avatar
Moopthehedgehog
DCEmu Freak
DCEmu Freak
Posts: 85
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 4:25 pm
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 39 times

Re: Dreamcast Classic

Post by Moopthehedgehog »

Oh yeah?
https://www.digipart.com/part/HD6417091RA
150k+ SH7091s, $8 a pop.
Who needs to emulate when you can still buy the actual CPUs for a pittance?

Get the holly on an fpga and that’s about $100 for a Dreamcast “redux.” It may even be possible to do it for less.
(I doubt SEGA will be the ones to do it, but who knows? IMO they could just re-release the Dreamcast and make more BBAs and make like 90% profit on it.)
I'm sure Aleron Ives feels weird with his postcount back to <10668
:D
User avatar
Nico0020
DCEmu User with No Life
DCEmu User with No Life
Posts: 3837
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2001 7:44 pm
Location: Fukuoka, Japan
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Dreamcast Classic

Post by Nico0020 »

Give it another ten years or so. Don't need another half-assed mini system like Sony did. Heck it took a lot for Sega to even be able to get the Genesis mini as good as they did.

Mini consoles of 6th gen stuff is going to be a much harder sell I think. There is a different kind of nostalgia for 8/16 bit consoles that the 5th and 6th gen consoles never captured.

Personally I'd love to see a Saturn made, just because so many of those titles were never ported to anything at all. Saturn's 2D heavy library also makes those games easier to digest than the PS1's extensive Dorito based 3D library.
*The Cadillac of signatures*
User avatar
Eviltaco64X
DCEmu Ultra Poster
DCEmu Ultra Poster
Posts: 1778
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:12 pm
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: Dreamcast Classic

Post by Eviltaco64X »

Nico0020 wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:42 pm Mini consoles of 6th gen stuff is going to be a much harder sell I think. There is a different kind of nostalgia for 8/16 bit consoles that the 5th and 6th gen consoles never captured.

Personally I'd love to see a Saturn made, just because so many of those titles were never ported to anything at all. Saturn's 2D heavy library also makes those games easier to digest than the PS1's extensive Dorito based 3D library.
N64 Classic would do really well. Nintendo could probably make one with no trouble, but the controllers would be bigger than the system itself. I'd guess they're a lot more expensive to make than NES/SNES controllers. Add to that, the boxes would probably be gigantic if they packed 2 controllers in. It goes against the whole Mini thing too much

Saturn Mini (anything 6th Gen and later) I only see happening whenever RetroPie or some equivalent becomes passable enough.
User avatar
Juan
DCEmu Commie
DCEmu Commie
Posts: 3398
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2003 11:47 pm
Location: Montevideo
Has thanked: 39 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Dreamcast Classic

Post by Juan »

I mostly want a comprehensive Sega arcades compilation, in a format like the current Mega Drive collection.
User avatar
Moopthehedgehog
DCEmu Freak
DCEmu Freak
Posts: 85
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 4:25 pm
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 39 times

Re: Dreamcast Classic

Post by Moopthehedgehog »

I came across this random thing recently:
http://ebook.pldworld.com/_eBook/SEGA/1 ... amcast.pdf
It's a complete cost-analysis of the Dreamcast hardware done in 2000 (it's legit, too: Portelligent has since been bought by CMP Technologies, which were then bought by UBM. Same company behind the EE Times). The prices in the BOM have really not changed much, so even if one were to rebuild the Dreamcast from the ground up, it would cost very nearly the same now as it did then to make.

I also find it insane that they were losing $50 on every console they were making. That means they would have needed to sell about 3 games per console to break even. The holly chip is an absolute monster, and a best-case FPGA implementation of that chip now would be at least the same price--not a chance of it being any cheaper.

That's $250 to build a Dreamcast from scratch at some kind of scale, even now.
And good luck finding the video encoder chips: the best I've seen is 5 for over $80 on Aliexpress.
I'm sure Aleron Ives feels weird with his postcount back to <10668
:D
User avatar
Eviltaco64X
DCEmu Ultra Poster
DCEmu Ultra Poster
Posts: 1778
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:12 pm
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: Dreamcast Classic

Post by Eviltaco64X »

Juan wrote: Fri Jan 10, 2020 6:11 pm I mostly want a comprehensive Sega arcades compilation, in a format like the current Mega Drive collection.
That would be a great idea if it was pulled off right. Licensing troubles with 3rd party IPs would be the toughest problem to sort out.
Moopthehedgehog wrote: Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:56 pm I came across this random thing recently:
http://ebook.pldworld.com/_eBook/SEGA/1 ... amcast.pdf
It's a complete cost-analysis of the Dreamcast hardware done in 2000 (it's legit, too: Portelligent has since been bought by CMP Technologies, which were then bought by UBM. Same company behind the EE Times). The prices in the BOM have really not changed much, so even if one were to rebuild the Dreamcast from the ground up, it would cost very nearly the same now as it did then to make.

I also find it insane that they were losing $50 on every console they were making. That means they would have needed to sell about 3 games per console to break even. The holly chip is an absolute monster, and a best-case FPGA implementation of that chip now would be at least the same price--not a chance of it being any cheaper.

That's $250 to build a Dreamcast from scratch at some kind of scale, even now.
And good luck finding the video encoder chips: the best I've seen is 5 for over $80 on Aliexpress.
If you don't build your Dreamcasts from scratch, you're not dreaming
User avatar
politoe
DCEmu Cool Poster
DCEmu Cool Poster
Posts: 1001
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 10:07 pm
Location: Los Angeles
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Dreamcast Classic

Post by politoe »

Just delivered at SOA Burbank office, (they've got a few satellite offices.)put in good word for the community. You guys just keep fucking thinking.
Ima post the Sonic statue pic in a bit.
Also used my 401k to purchase 23 shares of stocks at around $4 a pop before the movie released.
SEGA/SAMMY/ATLUS WEST took note.
User avatar
Moopthehedgehog
DCEmu Freak
DCEmu Freak
Posts: 85
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 4:25 pm
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 39 times

Re: Dreamcast Classic

Post by Moopthehedgehog »

Ah, I've been meaning to send them a letter asking if they'd be willing to provide the community with hardware documentation. We don't actually need the SDKs or anything, just an official source for official hardware docs/errata sheets/specifications would be super nice. Even a modern day Dreamcast developer portal is something I'd sign up for. There's a lot of stuff that's been floating around, but no idea if any of it is OK to use from any legal standpoint. Especially the Holly chip, AICA, G1/G2 bus, and really anything not the SH4 because STMicro and Renesas have really good/freely available docs for that (well, SH7750, which is, as far as I can tell, an identical chip).

Actually, thanks to those SH4 docs I've already been able to hit some theoretical maximum numbers on the SH4, and through reverse engineering my own machines got high resolution video modes out over VGA like 720p, 1440x900, and a real native widescreen mode of 848x480 (832x480 internally due to hardware limitations). A Dreamcast classic would see none of this, by the way. There's so much performance left on the table that the Homebrew/Indie community just can't make full use of without those kinds of documents for everything else.

EDIT: Apparently there exists a "Dreamcast on a Chip" used in the Sega System SP arcade board, with chip model SH3707. I guess if Sega wanted to make a "Classic" that would probably be the thing to use. Actually, that might even make such a console compatible with all this stuff.
These users thanked the author Moopthehedgehog for the post:
Arvex
I'm sure Aleron Ives feels weird with his postcount back to <10668
:D
User avatar
politoe
DCEmu Cool Poster
DCEmu Cool Poster
Posts: 1001
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 10:07 pm
Location: Los Angeles
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Dreamcast Classic

Post by politoe »

Image

SOA Burbank Sonic Pillar Head office
These users thanked the author politoe for the post:
Moopthehedgehog
User avatar
Eviltaco64X
DCEmu Ultra Poster
DCEmu Ultra Poster
Posts: 1778
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:12 pm
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: Dreamcast Classic

Post by Eviltaco64X »

politoe wrote: Fri Feb 28, 2020 7:18 pm Just delivered at SOA Burbank office, (they've got a few satellite offices.)put in good word for the community. You guys just keep fucking thinking.
Ima post the Sonic statue pic in a bit.
Also used my 401k to purchase 23 shares of stocks at around $4 a pop before the movie released.
SEGA/SAMMY/ATLUS WEST took note.
:spingrin: -> :teehee: "got 2 go fast" -> :spingrin:
User avatar
not just souLLy now
DCEmu Respected
DCEmu Respected
Posts: 4069
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 5:53 pm
Location: UK
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Dreamcast Classic

Post by not just souLLy now »


?
These users thanked the author not just souLLy now for the post:
Juan
User avatar
Eviltaco64X
DCEmu Ultra Poster
DCEmu Ultra Poster
Posts: 1778
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:12 pm
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: Dreamcast Classic

Post by Eviltaco64X »

not just souLLy now wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:38 pm

?
That looks nice. It's pretty consistent with the DC aesthetic.
|darc|
DCEmu Webmaster
DCEmu Webmaster
Posts: 16373
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2001 6:00 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Has thanked: 103 times
Been thanked: 90 times
Contact:

Re: Dreamcast Classic

Post by |darc| »

not just souLLy now wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:38 pm

?
You should work with mrneo240 on theming for his replacement GDEMU frontend openmenu
It's thinking...
User avatar
Arvex
DCEmu Cool Newbie
DCEmu Cool Newbie
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:43 pm
Location: USA
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 2 times
Contact:

Re: Dreamcast Classic

Post by Arvex »

I never really liked the mini/classic consoles. The only one that caught my interest was the SNES mini because it came with an official release of Star Fox 2, but when I saw it at a convention, it ran horribly on the SNES mini. Don't know if the build they put on there was poorly optimized or if the SNES mini was just not built for running that game (emulation quality issue?) I don't want to hack up a SuperFX chip game to make a Star Fox 2 cart to test that currently. Not to mention that it would likely not have any online capability because Sega probably wouldn't want to put the money into hosting servers for any of the games that they might put on there.

Instead of a Dreamcast Mini, I'd rather see Sega embrace the Dreamcast as the console for homebrew developers. Make a new run of MIL-CD capable Dreamcasts or at least work with hardware manufacturers to make a GD-R and matching burner available for the homebrew community. Re-issues of Dreamcast games that might be harder to find would be nice, too.

Now I'm kind of curious if Sega were to produce new Dreamcasts, how much they would sell them for. It should be cheaper to make now because the costs on its parts have fallen, but there is also inflation. (Retail price of the Dreamcast at the time of its US launch is the equivalent of $300 after inflation.) There is also the question of how much of the price is licensing for software and firmware that ran the Dreamcast.
User avatar
Moopthehedgehog
DCEmu Freak
DCEmu Freak
Posts: 85
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 4:25 pm
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 39 times

Re: Dreamcast Classic

Post by Moopthehedgehog »

Arvex wrote: Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:06 pm I never really liked the mini/classic consoles. The only one that caught my interest was the SNES mini because it came with an official release of Star Fox 2, but when I saw it at a convention, it ran horribly on the SNES mini. Don't know if the build they put on there was poorly optimized or if the SNES mini was just not built for running that game (emulation quality issue?) I don't want to hack up a SuperFX chip game to make a Star Fox 2 cart to test that currently. Not to mention that it would likely not have any online capability because Sega probably wouldn't want to put the money into hosting servers for any of the games that they might put on there.
I remember reading somewhere that games on a real SNES did lag like that often, and it was considered part of the aesthetic. Starfox 1 (one of the very few games I have for my SNES), for example, does lag on a real SNES, and I imagine that Starfox 2 would probably have been about that bad on a real SNES. On the other hand, owning a SNES Mini means you can rip the ROM yourself and just play that on an emulator, which AFAIK is the only not-legally-gray way to actually play it in a not laggy fashion. :P
Arvex wrote: Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:06 pm Instead of a Dreamcast Mini, I'd rather see Sega embrace the Dreamcast as the console for homebrew developers. Make a new run of MIL-CD capable Dreamcasts or at least work with hardware manufacturers to make a GD-R and matching burner available for the homebrew community. Re-issues of Dreamcast games that might be harder to find would be nice, too.
I agree, this would be awesome.
Arvex wrote: Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:06 pm Now I'm kind of curious if Sega were to produce new Dreamcasts, how much they would sell them for. It should be cheaper to make now because the costs on its parts have fallen, but there is also inflation. (Retail price of the Dreamcast at the time of its US launch is the equivalent of $300 after inflation.) There is also the question of how much of the price is licensing for software and firmware that ran the Dreamcast.
Actually, you can figure out roughly how much it would cost from here:
http://ebook.pldworld.com/_eBook/SEGA/1 ... amcast.pdf
If they don't have stockpiles of the custom chips lying around in a warehouse (HOLLY, AICA) it would probably cost about the same to make now.
I'm sure Aleron Ives feels weird with his postcount back to <10668
:D
User avatar
Juan
DCEmu Commie
DCEmu Commie
Posts: 3398
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2003 11:47 pm
Location: Montevideo
Has thanked: 39 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Dreamcast Classic

Post by Juan »

JastrebJ21
DCEmu Newbie
DCEmu Newbie
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:01 pm
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Dreamcast Classic

Post by JastrebJ21 »

Still, I think that there's definitely going to be a market for a mini Dreamcast... Sure, it didn't sell as well as 5th and 6th gen consoles from other manufacturers, but it's still a name everyone who grew up in the 90s remembers!
Plus - that's my opinion - the nostalgia for the Dreamcast/PS2/GameCube simply hasn't grown enough to justify mini remakes yet, but that it will appear within years. Then, if that prediction comes true, it may be the last generation of consoles to have enough of a cult following to create a wave of nostalgia 20 years later: the Gen Z seems to be much more okay with their present and future than millenials who are more often than not looking at an idealised past (after all, it's the 1980-1995 generation, who grew up playing the fourth to sixth console gens and still misses them)
Post Reply