Nintendo Switch

General purpose discussion about gaming and emulation.
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Re: Nintendo Switch

Post by |darc| » Mon Oct 31, 2016 6:30 pm

Jeeba Jabba wrote:Also... I understand its importance in the marketing, the modularity of the controllers popping off, better communicating the platform's dual purposes/functionality... But doesn't it just make way more sense to... make it like the Wii U gamepad where they're permanently on there? The whole idea of popping them off to slide onto the little controller base for home use is pretty dumb if you can just pop it into the dock and grab the regular "pro" controller. Mobile multiplayer is the only thing that they are "good" for, otherwise, which is something I have a hard time imagining being a common scenario.
Doing it that way makes it a portable instead of a handheld. It's kind of nice that you can set it on the table and use the controller separately instead of having to look down in your lap or hold your arms up. And obviously, like you said mobile multiplayer wouldn't work if the controls are on the screen and someone was using it like a handheld.

My guess is that the pro controller will not come with the console either, like on the Wii U.
It's thinking...
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Re: Nintendo Switch

Post by mankrip » Tue Nov 01, 2016 1:32 pm

Plus, playing on heavy tablets for extended periods of time isn't comfortable.
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Re: Nintendo Switch

Post by cube_b3 » Sun Nov 13, 2016 11:31 pm

I don't own any of the current gen consoles so I don't care for them. Switch doesn't look like it will pull me back.
I can't argue against vast majority but I own a console that has perfect backward compatibility and I wish it was better than perfect I want the old games to be able to tap into the new hardware and not be blurry in addition to running perfectly.
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Re: Nintendo Switch

Post by melancholy » Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:30 pm

The Switch is what I wish the Wii U was. It's literally the best designed system Nintendo has come up with, and I will throw down any amount of money Nintendo charges for it. While the Wii U is easily the most played console in my house, I hated the Gamepad simply because it was a forced gimmick that wasn't portable. Games require the use of this bulky Leapfrog-looking device yet doesn't allow you to travel 20 feet away from the console. With the Switch, Nintendo literally takes all the strengths of the Wii U and removes every single complaint I had about it.
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Re: Nintendo Switch

Post by not just souLLy now » Thu Nov 17, 2016 4:20 am

It's the first time in a very long time I've been sold on a Nintendo console from first reveal.
I've been thinking for a while I'd rather Nintendo duck out of the hardware race if they're going to keep making underpowered gimmicky consoles. Nintendo games are generally great, but Miyamoto's judgement has been lacking lately and games have felt a bit restrained by having to justify/support novelty control systems and silly hardware add-ons. Plus supporting both home/mobile consoles has left their teams stretched and their release calendars empty.

The Switch ticks a lot of boxes for me. If a new Nintendo console is still comparatively underpowered because the gimmick is that it's also mobile, that's a gimmick I can be really sold on. The name/logo is good, the rumoured pricing, if accurate, is good too. Bethesda and FROM Software on board is a big deal. If they can sort out their online infrastructure to support this all (accounts, a good store, trophies), it could be huge.

Could happily lose this shit though:

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Re: Nintendo Switch

Post by cube_b3 » Sun Nov 20, 2016 2:38 am

melancholy wrote:The Switch is what I wish the Wii U was. It's literally the best designed system Nintendo has come up with, and I will throw down any amount of money Nintendo charges for it. While the Wii U is easily the most played console in my house, I hated the Gamepad simply because it was a forced gimmick that wasn't portable. Games require the use of this bulky Leapfrog-looking device yet doesn't allow you to travel 20 feet away from the console. With the Switch, Nintendo literally takes all the strengths of the Wii U and removes every single complaint I had about it.
It does feel like what Wii U should've been.
But when you say it removes all the complaints does that the Wiimote was a complaint?

I still miss it. I wish Playstation Move would've been more popular and still supported by PS4.

You can't have a Nintendo discussion without discussing motion controls.
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Re: Nintendo Switch

Post by Eviltaco64X » Sun Nov 20, 2016 12:52 pm

cube_b3 wrote:You can't have a Nintendo discussion without discussing motion controls.
I can and will. That was the most frustrating part of playing many Wii games.

Playing NSMB Wii and accidentally shaking the Wiimote when you're jumping over a cliff so Mario does a twist and you die right before the end of the level 100x because there's no way to turn it off.
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Re: Nintendo Switch

Post by Specially Cork » Mon Nov 21, 2016 3:22 am

Skyward Sword is the only Wii game I can think of where I really enjoyed the motion controls. There were other games where it 'worked' but they never felt better because of it. Most games were just really lazy with it though - replacing a button press with a shake wasn't fun at all.
cube_b3 wrote:I wish Playstation Move would've been more popular and still supported by PS4.
Well it's a crucial part of Playstation VR so you may have your wish. Being able to move your hands in VR is definitely a more attractive and exclusive application of the hardware, but time will tell if it grows to be more than a novelty. I'm fairly pessimistic.
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Re: Nintendo Switch

Post by |darc| » Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:41 pm

cube_b3 wrote:
melancholy wrote:The Switch is what I wish the Wii U was. It's literally the best designed system Nintendo has come up with, and I will throw down any amount of money Nintendo charges for it. While the Wii U is easily the most played console in my house, I hated the Gamepad simply because it was a forced gimmick that wasn't portable. Games require the use of this bulky Leapfrog-looking device yet doesn't allow you to travel 20 feet away from the console. With the Switch, Nintendo literally takes all the strengths of the Wii U and removes every single complaint I had about it.
It does feel like what Wii U should've been.
But when you say it removes all the complaints does that the Wiimote was a complaint?

I still miss it. I wish Playstation Move would've been more popular and still supported by PS4.

You can't have a Nintendo discussion without discussing motion controls.

How is it that you love everything that is bad?

Fuck motion controls. Motion controls are easily the worst thing to happen to Nintendo in the last two generations, aside from Wii Sports.
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Re: Nintendo Switch

Post by cube_b3 » Thu Nov 24, 2016 10:09 pm

Bah... Nintendo would've filed for bankruptcy if it wasn't for the Wii.
The Wii kept the company afloat.

What made me fall in love with the Wii mote was Resident Evil 4. I had bought Gamecube for RE4 but playing it on Wii was super a more powerful experience. That's what sold me on motion controls.
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Re: Nintendo Switch

Post by not just souLLy now » Fri Nov 25, 2016 5:05 am

Other than Wii Sports and RE4 I can't think of anything else I was particularly wowed by. But irrespective of that, it's 10 year old technology, tech has moved on endlessly since then. It's clear that supporting legacy controllers and games (while well intentioned) has stifled Nintendo's ability to be competitive.

The Wii is also now a tainted brand. With the name Switch they're thankfully trying to distance themselves from it. The Wii-U was confusing for consumers, was it a Wii upgrade? Check any Amazon review for a major Wii-U game and see reviews from confused parents who mistakenly bought it assuming the Wii would play it. Adding Wii remote support would only confuse further.

In my honest opinion what Nintendo needs to do, is have a single, unified control system (like the PS4). A clear vision. How many configurations and options were there in the end for the Wii-U? Gamepad (with touch screen option), Remote (waggle or horizontal), motion plus, nunchuck, classic controller, Pro controller, gamecube controller, balance board, wheel, zapper, a 3DS... What a convoluted mess. Who genuinely believes this resulted in better games?
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Re: Nintendo Switch

Post by not just souLLy now » Fri Nov 25, 2016 5:05 am

d-d-d-d-doublepost
Last edited by not just souLLy now on Fri Nov 25, 2016 5:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Nintendo Switch

Post by Eviltaco64X » Fri Nov 25, 2016 5:10 pm

cube_b3 wrote:Bah... Nintendo would've filed for bankruptcy if it wasn't for the Wii.
The Wii kept the company afloat.
That's not necessarily true. They've always been the king of handhelds.

When N64 and Gamecube were selling at slow paces, GBP/GBC, GBA, and DS were absolutely crushing it in sales. Same goes for the 3DS this time around.

Wii brought them back as a serious contender in the console realm, but they catered to the wrong crowd.

Wii U was a shift back towards a focus on quality games, but it had a rather confused identity.

Switch really does look like the best aspects of everything. New and exciting enough to attract casuals, a game lineup that appeals to the fans, and the good aspects of Wii U streamlined into one system.

I'm looking forward to it. :)
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Re: Nintendo Switch

Post by mankrip » Sat Nov 26, 2016 2:45 pm

Nintendo said the Wii U wasn't going to be discontinued yet, but afterwards it seems they confirmed that it's indeed going to be discontinued.

They also said the Switch won't replace the 3DS. Only time will tell. For new games, the only disadvantages the Switch seems to have over the 3DS are the lack of a 3D screen and the too-big-for-pockets size.
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Re: Nintendo Switch

Post by |darc| » Sat Nov 26, 2016 7:02 pm

cube_b3 wrote:Bah... Nintendo would've filed for bankruptcy if it wasn't for the Wii.
The Wii kept the company afloat.
You do realize that of the last 6 systems Nintendo released, only 2 of them weren't the best selling system of its class?

(GBA, DS, 3DS, and Wii were all best selling in class, the GameCube and Wii U weren't)

That doesn't sound like a game company about to go bankrupt to me
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Re: Nintendo Switch

Post by Eviltaco64X » Sat Nov 26, 2016 8:28 pm

mankrip wrote:Nintendo said the Wii U wasn't going to be discontinued yet, but afterwards it seems they confirmed that it's indeed going to be discontinued.

They also said the Switch won't replace the 3DS. Only time will tell. For new games, the only disadvantages the Switch seems to have over the 3DS are the lack of a 3D screen and the too-big-for-pockets size.
They always tend to do that.

I think they said the same thing about GBA when DS came out. DS was only a "compliment" to GBA
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Re: Nintendo Switch

Post by cube_b3 » Mon Nov 28, 2016 10:04 pm

@ Darc: Please don't count handhelds. Those class victories as you call them were primarily unrivaled.
You are actually not going to compare GP32 or NGPC as a worthy adversary are you?

Also the whole reason they are doing the Switch is to make one last attempt to save their handheld division. They have already lost the home console market. The 3DS is irrelevant, ever since you talked me into an iPhone. I've not even touched my DS even though there are great games I should play so forget 3DS.

Anyway we are digressing. Motion Controls were not garbage.
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Re: Nintendo Switch

Post by Specially Cork » Tue Nov 29, 2016 5:07 am

cube_b3 wrote:@ Darc: Please don't count handhelds. Those class victories as you call them were primarily unrivaled.
You are actually not going to compare GP32 or NGPC as a worthy adversary are you?

Also the whole reason they are doing the Switch is to make one last attempt to save their handheld division. They have already lost the home console market. The 3DS is irrelevant, ever since you talked me into an iPhone. I've not even touched my DS even though there are great games I should play so forget 3DS.

Anyway we are digressing. Motion Controls were not garbage.
He's not counting the victories. He's counting the money they made. You said they would be bankrupt without the Wii's 'success', but they've made loads of money off handhelds. I agree the traditional handheld might have had it's day and the 3DS hasn't done nearly as well as their previous attempts but it's hardly "irrelevant". There are great games on it and I'm playing them, despite owning a smartphone.

And motion controls were garbage. I agree they had their moments - RE4 was definitely one of them, but they had no place in 99% of games and ruined most that they touched. And they touched way too many because once you push a certain gimmick developers feel obligated to make use of it. It was only toward the end of the Wii's short lifecycle that developers started going "fuck it" and using normal controls. Before that they either jammed some wiimote waggling in where they could or more often than not - just didn't bother with the Wii.

Beyond their actual implementation in games you also had the other shortcomings like the imperfect accuracy, the stupid lanyard, the sensor bar, the mountains of batteries and no way to play wired, the need to sit bolt upright dead center in front of the TV to game, and sometimes I had to move my whole arm. That's unacceptable unless I'm having a wank.

Glad to see the back of them.
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Re: Nintendo Switch

Post by mankrip » Tue Nov 29, 2016 7:55 am

I had great fun playing Metroid Prime standing up in front of my TV. Doing arm movements to turn and look around felt great. It's really the most fun way to play first person games, despite being not the most accurate. It's sad to see such a thing go away.

However, in most Wii games, which were not first person games, motion controls were poorly tacked on. Even Super Mario Galaxy had poorly-designed motion controls.

Every time a company tries to integrate a new tech into everything, things go downhill. Instead of doing more research to figure out the best ways to use the tech, they use it for everything and wait to see which of the uses will be successful. The problem is, consumers get burned out by the bad uses of technology, and this makes them avoid all uses instead of just the bad ones.

If the Wiimote had had more buttons and motion controls weren't mandatory (It's standard practice for console manufacturers to oblige developers to implement certain things), motion controls wouldn't have gotten such a bad reputation among so many people.

However, forcing everyone to use motion controls was also a way to make the Wiimote less expensive, which some execs may have liked.
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Re: Nintendo Switch

Post by Specially Cork » Wed Nov 30, 2016 8:34 am

mankrip wrote:Every time a company tries to integrate a new tech into everything, things go downhill. Instead of doing more research to figure out the best ways to use the tech, they use it for everything and wait to see which of the uses will be successful. The problem is, consumers get burned out by the bad uses of technology, and this makes them avoid all uses instead of just the bad ones.
I think Nintendo did a poor job of this and with all their recent gimmicks really. Their marketing told us all how we were about to witness a revolution in gaming, but they should have led the way on that.

Obviously Wii Sports caught the public's attention, but that wasn't the huge shift in gaming that was promised. Pretty much every game Nintendo put out was just a normal game that would have played perfectly well without the new technology.

I can't offer up good examples of what they should have done (if they could have done anything at all), but if standard controllers were a thing of the past a big Mario or Zelda game needed to show us why.
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