DCQuake; the rise and fall...

DARKHALO2K · Post by **DARKHALO2K** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 4:38 pm

Yello there people. Before I begin addressing a few issues, i'd like to state that this topic is in no way meant to cause any offence, disrespect or bashing. What I plan to write is simply my efforts to help resolve any conflicts around here, in a positive way, and try to point out where I believe things have gone wrong. As such, keep in mind that these are just my views. There is no need to repeat opinions, arguments or begin bashing my views. If you disagree with what I say, ignore me...

GENERAL INTERNET NOTES
I'd like to begin by making a small statement about dealing with people online. To begin with, please try to never post too soon after a previous message. This is not restricted to time, but also to quantity. By this, i'd like to use the example of "speud" from his RADQuake discussions. His points have been valid, but in some cases it is almost as though every other post in a topic is his. Whilst each post may contain valid points, I would suggest waiting a day, to give other people a chance to add their input, and then reply to them all at once (if needs be). Such "rapid" seeming responses to convey defensive images, and may also give the author more fuel to his/her fire; take a day away and you should soon find yourself simmering a little, and perhaps loose the need to post defensive/hateful/provoking replies.

Upon a similiar note; try not to be to dissapointed if people take your points in the wrong way. Any statement you make online is through text only (well, most of the time). As such, keep in mind taht people can read things in very different ways. You may be more sarcastic than the guy next to you and so may find harshity in topics where there is none intended. Likewise, forget a comma or leave a word out and for all the people who re-read your statement until they understand your point, you will get the same amount who think you are saying something else. Don't find yourself too defensive if people take your point the wrong way, just point out their error to them and hope they understand.

A final note on internet discussion, and one which should be kept in mind more than anything [and which will appear to make more sense upon reading the previous two paragraphs]; try to keep to an adult manner about yourself. Say someone does read your topic wrong and then goes on to bash you. In your eyes, they will have done so unfairly, whilst they will have taken your words and found their own meaning for them. What do you do?! Bash them back?! No, that will only continue the argument as whilst they may no longer care about your original words, they will surely be provoked by any personal bashing. Simply point out any errors in a respectable manner. But, what if someone starts on you?! Fair enough, it may make you feel better to respond in the same way as them, but I can guarantee you that at some point you will feel better if you can say that you were mature enough to FINISH the fight. If a user continues to bash you after you have tried to put an adult spin/end to things then just stop replying; people really do get bored of fighting when there is nobody to fight with (and if they don't, then at least they can't fight if there is no opponent).

MY RADQUAKE ADDRESS
OK, whilst I have tried to give some points that may help to prevent such an esculating argument ever happening again, and may even gain some people a bit more respect if employed in their online presence, here is my personal response to the recent occurrings of the DCQuake scene...

SPEUD
Please don't take this as "just another attack", and read through fully before deciding to hate me, but speud (if you are reading this), I would like to address you first. Fragger opened a topic to chat about the latest build of RADQuake. Whilst this is obviously wrong on Fraggers part as there was no concrete info to share at that time on any new release, it was wrong to start a public 'down dressing' of his character. You could have contacted him privately with any arguments to discuss. You have stated that you did so publicly so that he would see it straight away, but surely he would find an e-mail sooner?! Don't get me wrong here, but if I was only able to get online once a month then i'd much sooner rush to my inbox than check all the forums I post in to try and find a topic that may have since sunk to the bottom of the boards. Also, try not to get so narked with people (read my above stuff). It can be very annoying to get an uneducated reply, not to mention a tonne of them, but by replying in an agressive manner you are simply asking for more bashing (as i've outlined above). Try to keep in mind that it was you who brought the argument to the public forum. Fragger may have asked for it in terms of starting the original thread a bit prematurely, but nobody has deserved a public dressing down. Whilst I say this please don't even think of this as a public dressing down for you. I don't think you have deserved such a thing either; simply some guidance on dealing with certain situations and a third person point of view so that you may understand why people have been so angry towards you. Above all, please keep in mind that we, the public you have attacked in many ways, don't actually have any reason to be upset on your behalf. Nobody other than you and IanMicheal have experienced any sort of proof as to the existence, or features, of your port. I don't doubt that you have achieved the next evolution of RADQuake, and was damn excited to hear of it, but when things get taken to an agressive level, you have to feel for the guy who has proved their efforts to you. Fragger has uploaded a lot of DCQuake before and has everyones respect for that, and on any word he says about a new feature/release. Whilst you may have proof of being a gret coder elsewhere, I personally have seen NO DCQuake related work of yours and so (I feel) deserve as much belief behind "save support" or other such work as I would if I posted such a thing. Finally, if you don't feel we deserve a release then why keep standing up for yourself?! Just let the topic die with along with your RADQuake work.

IAN MICHEAL
Firstly, thank you for your past works. Secondly, it's been such a shame in seeing a somewhat "self obsessed/elitest" attitude as of late. Why apologise to speud for other peoples attitudes?! There is no need to be protective towards speud, surely you can see why some people may have been angered by his attitude in dealing with all of this. And, in a similiar way, why state publicly that you "quit" and that "nobody can code RADQuake to a professional standard as speud can". Yup, I know these aren't your exact words, but they are what you have implied. Such words are simply asking for more attacks. Not only that, but think of just how degrading such words are. With all the ports over the years, all of the emu's, all of the applications designed for the Dreamcast by homebrew coders since it's release; why is nobody as able as you or speud?! This is being a bit of a rant on my part, which I apologise for, but hopefully you can see my perspective a bit better when I say that the legendary Bero has given us more than you or speud have given us together so far. Save support?! He had that ages ago, a real nice resolution...yup. Don't get me wrong, this is no hero worship. I have enjoyed pretting around with RADQuakes various versions and have been more excited by a new release of that engine than by any of Bero's works (yes, they are broken ports, etc), but understand that I am simply saying that whoever you are there is always someone better than you. Likewise, i'm sure you would garner more respect if you gave your complete take on a subject, rather than appear to be more concerened with the feelings of another member than with the current topic. It's great to care for someone else, in fact that is more important than anything, but you could at least tack on your complete opinions (or PM/mail you commisirations to the individual if you have nothing to add to the topic itself).

WHAT TO DO?!
I think the resolution to this topic has been self explinatory. But here's how I see how it should go anyway...
Everyone tries to forget the harsh words offered up for argument so far.
Speud releases RADQuake 5 and instantly earns respect for it.
People begin to see speuds view a bit better when the topic dies down and they witness his hard work for themselves.
People begin to benefit from RADQuake 5; lot's of engine specific mods, maybe even the emrgence of underground "commercial" releases.
Fragger gets a copy of RADQuake 5 when everybody else does, may be sorry for any inconvienience previously (if not already), but gets to work on his own additions.
People continue to benefit from engine only mods, releases, and new versions...
...the DCQuake (which is kinda at the heart of the DC Homebrew scene, when you think about it, and the possibilities) continues to live on for a very long time to come...

Well, there's my happy story to end a possibly raw rant. I hope that my words may be of some use to anybody who has bothered to read this far and I would like to thank you very, very much for your time if you have made it to here. I completely respect any decision to delete this mod, or to simply lock it, by the Moderators of this site. Also, I can understand if it may seem that I am trying to continue this argument of late, but in which case please try to understand that I am in fact trying to finish it all in a positive, and hopefully mature, way. For this messed up twenty year old misfit, it's so long for now...

Stay cool and many thanks people,
Pip (DARKHALO2K)

typoEDR · Post by **typoEDR** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 5:08 pm

I'm not even going to try to read that (I haven't even gotten to the second chapter of 1984), but I don't think your literary efforts are going to repair anything. The damage is done.

Hell of a try (and quite a long one), though.

Post by **Tyne** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 5:12 pm

Nice read.

speud · Post by **speud** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 5:43 pm

i appreciate your intentions, and i like the way you wrote this post, but i already explained myself and i dont want to go back on my decision.

please dont tell me what i should do or should have done again, some people already did it (although not in this elegant way) and i think its enough.

i dont want to monopolize this forum with this episode, whatever people reproached me it shouldnt count anymore now that i decided not to release my version. see, fragger will be able to continue the project if he wants to, i dont see anything wrong with that personnally. i dont know if ian wants so, though.

Ian Micheal · Post by **Ian Micheal** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 6:12 pm

Speud did a lot more then simple save support.I believe speud can do saving and that type of thing better then any one your problem with the truth is.

Any way with out speuds changes i dont want to make any more releases of it was going to quit the whole scene after it was released now im forced to keep going.

DARKHALO2K · Post by **DARKHALO2K** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 6:26 pm

Yello once again,
I just wanted to thank you all for replying so far. I agree with you typoEDR in that, to an extent, the damage is done. I know we will not publicly see RADQuake 5 (a damn shame), but I still hope that my post may restore some of the goodwill around here. Tyne, thank you for the compliment, I appreciate it.
And speud, thank you for reply also. I respect the fact that you are sticking by your guns in that you will not release the work. I'm also greatful for the fact that you saw through a cagey subject and am somewhat happy with my post. And, in doing so letting me be one of the only people to be left unscathed

Look after yourselves everyone,
DARKHALO2K
EDIT:Sorry Ian, I was posting as you were and have just read your reply. I'm sorry that you feel a little cagey and I just wanted to make it clear that I do not hero worship Bero; he was simply an example to show that there are all sorts of talent that may, or may not, be able to code new features/ports. As stated, I used to wait for your latest builds more than any new DC prog and it's a shame you wont be continuing this. I've stated the truth as I have seen it and I am sorry if it conflicts with your view.
Please try not to take my comments too harshly and I wish you well with all your future projects...

Moi · Post by **Moi** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 6:38 pm

typoEDR wrote: (I haven't even gotten to the second chapter of 1984)

I have to read this book! I heard it's a similar story to my all time favorite movie 'Brazil'.

ETR · Post by **ETR** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 6:40 pm

Halo, you stated you're 20? This reads like someone twice the age, and an experienced one at that. You're making many a valid point, we all do have a tendency to jump on others online.

I'm also very impressed with how you handled Ian's extremely childish response. I tip my hat to you for following what you wrote first. Hypocrisy would have hurt the truth to what you wrote. You've earned my respect today.

Speud: You and I have dealt before, and your reply does nothing to damage my opinion of you.

Ian: Grow up.

Moi · Post by **Moi** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 6:51 pm

/me throws a shoe into the room

typoEDR · Post by **typoEDR** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 7:01 pm

Moi wrote:I have to read this book! I heard it's a similar story to my all time favorite movie 'Brazil'.

It's a very influential book. Even videogames have taken snippets from the book, including the upcoming Half-Life 2. It's a good read for the story, but Orwell isn't the best 'technical writer'.

Read most of your post, DarkHalo2K, and it's a good read.

Moi · Post by **Moi** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 7:08 pm

typoEDR wrote: It's a good read for the story, but Orwell isn't the best 'technical writer'.

But the book was written long time ago so I guess you can accept the 'technical mistakes'...
Have you seen Brazil? when it should come out the makers wanted to call it 1984-II but the movie 1984 came out the same year so they couldnt...

Read most of your post, DarkHalo2K, and it's a good read.

True! But unfortunatelly it wont change anything.... so...

typoEDR · Post by **typoEDR** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 8:01 pm

The book was published in 1948. I've read older books, and they've been easier reads, IMHO, than 1984, even with ye old 'nglish! Nevertheless, 1984 is still a very good read.

And yes, I've seen Brazil. I've seen most of the director's films, actually. Gilliam is one of the more imaginative directors out there.

Moi · Post by **Moi** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 8:05 pm

12 monkeys for example...

typoEDR · Post by **typoEDR** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 8:09 pm

Moi wrote:12 monkeys for example...

Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas (definitely in my top 5)...

...wait, this is so off-topic, this is DarkHalo2K's thread to convince Speud to release RQuake 4.5, not 'The Terry Gilliam and George Orwell Appreciation Thread'.

Moi · Post by **Moi** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 8:16 pm

Yepp, sorry went a little offtopic...

But I guess since Speud wont change his mind anyway I thought it'd make this a more intersting discussion to talk about things that are fun... I hope DarkHalo2K wont start bashing me for my dumb actions and for his lost time...

Ian Micheal · Post by **Ian Micheal** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 8:33 pm

Heh totaly stuiped was never going to be called radquake 5 btw. FLCL|ETR blah.

Totaly useless.

Post by **Tyne** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 8:34 pm

Hi please stop bashing Ian Micheal, he's done a lot for the Dreamcast community overall mmmkay!

Moi · Post by **Moi** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 8:42 pm

Both 12 monkeys and Brazil have a complicated story however I think Brazil is easier to understand...

speud · Post by **speud** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 8:50 pm

I hope DarkHalo2K wont start bashing me for my dumb actions and for his lost time...

very clever comment.

Moi · Post by **Moi** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 8:52 pm

excusez moi...