RADQuake 5

mankrip · Post by **mankrip** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 12:13 pm

Okay people, let's open a topic for the next version of RADQuake so we don't need to hijack other topics.

I'll let Speud and Ian talk about what they're doing on it. As for me, I'm working a lot on it, but I don't want to tell all of it before the release. I'm adding a lot of features that will make the JoyMenu mod almost useless, and I added fully customization to some things that will make it more functional to mod authors and easier to final users. I'd like to talk a bit more, but I'm paying to be in the net now so I'll talk more later.

Probably I'll have net access at my home next week. If it happens it'll be easier for me to work with Ian and Speud on this release.

Good luck everyone.

speud · Post by **speud** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 12:26 pm

sorry but seeing how you dont want to share infos and tell what parts youre modifying, and seeing that i finished my changes and was waiting for yours (which i thought you would have sent me already), plus the fact that you are still changing parts that i also told you i modified without thinking about the compatibility, i decided to release the curent version without your changes after a few more cleaning, if ian is ok with my choice anyway.

Post by **Tyne** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 12:28 pm

Please try not to suck up all the available RAM with all the additions

Codename: Envenom requires a lot of ram as it is (and it's increasing too!).

mankrip · Post by **mankrip** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 1:05 pm

speud wrote:sorry but seeing how you dont want to share infos and tell what parts youre modifying,

I just don't want to spoil the news to the general public before the release, but I sent you a PM some minutes ago.

speud wrote:and seeing that i finished my changes and was waiting for yours (which i thought you would have sent me already), plus the fact that you are still changing parts that i also told you i modified without thinking about the compatibility, i decided to release the curent version without your changes after a few more cleaning, if ian is ok with my choice anyway.

It wouldn't be a problem for me to wait one or two more weeks to release it, but feel free to do whatever you want.

I'm sad because I didn't want to make you angry at me.

I'm trying to contribute to this project, but it's hard when I can only get in the net 2-4 times per month, in a public computer.

speud · Post by **speud** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 1:24 pm

i told you several times that i hate to waste my time working on parts that would eventually be modified/removed later. i also posted the parts i intended to change or changed already, and this didnt stop you to continue your changes in "secret" without bothering of the compatibility.

although you didnt want to make me mad you did it. like i meant to ian i refuse to have to say good bye to my changes just because you dont know what team work means.

either i will release my version without your changes, so you can remove my changes later without it has been a waste, or i wont release it at all. no need to say i would prefere the 1st one, and im sad to have to make this choice. i answered to your pm btw.

Ian Micheal · Post by **Ian Micheal** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 3:13 pm

We will have the release as Speud wants with out any condations thats how i like to work. We have it with out fraggers changes as it's to much work and it would be a waste of speuds time and thats not what i want.

Im happy with the work speud did on radquake and happy to have it stay the way he his made it.

Any way i think it should be like this Speud i will release it just like you have it.

testing on it right now.

Post by **Christuserloeser** » Sun Aug 01, 2004 3:31 am

I'm not the one who is in position mention this but why not waiting to see at least how the stuff that Fragger's working on adds to speud's work !? Fragger is a true Quake fanatic and has done so unbelievably much for the Quake scene in the past. Joymenu & HexQuake are fantastic! I don't think you are beeing fair to him as he explained the reasons for information delay in his last post.

Beside what speud mentioned, not to get someone's time wasted by combining knowledge and splitting up the actual work, the intention of team work is to get the absolutly best out of a project so stop bashing him and wait for his contributions to see if it fits together. A rushed release won't help much to solve the problem, don't you think !?

I really don't like the latest trend towards bashing other coders on this board.

Chris

speud · Post by **speud** » Sun Aug 01, 2004 6:18 am

uh?? rushed release?? i finished my changes for some time now, i was waiting for fraggers changes like i said before. he sent me his changes by pm and most of them are simply not compatible with mine, so what should we do? should we break my code to add fraggers changes (which basically are blind changes since he doesnt even know how my saving works) although i publicly mentionned what i was doing regullary and started this before him with ians agreement? besides if he wants to add his changes later he will be able to do it, i dont see the problem.

I really don't like the latest trend towards bashing other coders on this board.

what the heck are you talking about?! dont talk about things when you dont know all the facts. did someone bash fragger here? certainly not. i reproach him to have worked on his version without taking my work in consideration. the result is not surprising and i dont want to spoil his changes but when i saw his list its almost like i was looking at my changes list, so theres definitely no way to merge the 2 in one version. if that makes me look like the bad guy i prefere not to release anything, working in these conditions is very annoying and i start to understand why some great coders left the scene...

Ian Micheal · Post by **Ian Micheal** » Sun Aug 01, 2004 7:20 am

Christuserloeser wrote:I'm not the one who is in position mention this but why not waiting to see at least how the stuff that Fragger's working on adds to speud's work !? Fragger is a true Quake fanatic and has done so unbelievably much for the Quake scene in the past. Joymenu & HexQuake are fantastic! I don't think you are beeing fair to him as he explained the reasons for information delay in his last post.

Beside what speud mentioned, not to get someone's time wasted by combining knowledge and splitting up the actual work, the intention of team work is to get the absolutly best out of a project so stop bashing him and wait for his contributions to see if it fits together. A rushed release won't help much to solve the problem, don't you think !?

I really don't like the latest trend towards bashing other coders on this board.

Chris

First up this is not a rushed release so that is a false statement from you. Fragger is not being bashed about his skill or coder or quake skills. What happen here is Speud started before fragger and made and worked very hard and asked fragger can you give me my changes so i dont waste me time. Changes from fragger now are not compatable and would break speuds work which would be a waste of time.

Now the release is not rushed but polished and retail like it has got every thing ive wanted and done will great skill and care be a shame that this was not enjoyed. i hope this does not go to waste.

Speud please dont let people that have no idea make you angrey.

Any way can we all now stay to what i said before the release is how it is now which is very good retail like, and i want to get this to the homebrew scene, and have a fully complete legal quake 1 engine for modders to make games for the dc scene.

Speud if you leave i will follow mate.

DARKHALO2K · Post by **DARKHALO2K** » Sun Aug 01, 2004 11:53 am

Yello there,
It's great to hear that a very polished version of RADQuake is gearing for release, especially since it sounds like it'll have save support!? RADQuake has always been a promising work and I can not say just how much i'd love such a "complete" version. In fact, if RADQuake is now so polished then I would like to build my upcoming "RAPTORS!Round 2" mod specifically for it (taking in mind the versions RAM capabilities, resolution, saving, etc) and release it as the first (if I get there in time) freely available RADQuake mod!
To be honest, saving is the only 'real' feature i've been wanting to see added to RADQuake and, with no disrespect to Fragger, I would likely remove any bind controls from a stand alone product. I say release speuds version if ready, and then Fragger can simply release his version when complete. There's nothing wrong with choice, or simply an upgrade, and it would be cool to have Fraggers developments when ready as i'm liking the sound of RADQuake being easy to remove objects/options from.
BLAH! Forgive me for my weird rant, but I just hope nobody falls out over this and that all us eager DCer's can soon reap the benefit from either or both of the guys' hard works.
All the best,
DARKHALO2K

Post by **Tyne** » Sun Aug 01, 2004 11:56 am

Aww, I hope we see speud's release personally.. 640x480 graphics, proper Dreamcast features, correct saving ..sounds like a dream come true for me since I'd be able to properly put Envenom and future mods on the Dreamcast. Fragger's release sounds good too but as Speud says he has most of those changes/additions in his release and I'm always for upgrading RADQuake's graphics, saving is especially important to me.

I say you should just ignore what people say speud and release it and not give a care about what others think - that's how I work when I owned my own server for an MMORPG (Called Graal Online), nothing bothered me then. Just do strictly what you want and ignore stupid peoples comments who have no idea what they're talking about.

typoEDR · Post by **typoEDR** » Sun Aug 01, 2004 1:26 pm

Whoa, whoa, whoa, calm down. Don't react negatively to Christuserloeser's post. To tell you the truth, I had the same perception as Christuserloeser on this matter, but I didn't post anything because I didn't know the whole story, perhaps neither did Christuserloeser. But now I see why there's a bit of an edgy matter with the RADQuake development.

Personally, I find no problem with Speud and Ian releasing a new version of RADQuake, and then Fragger released a second version (4.5.1, if you will). It'll give people a chance to witness the glory of Quake in a higher resolution sooner, and if Fragger's changes warrant it, people can download the second version.

To end this post, don't blow a fuse. Remember, communication is the best means of keeping the peace.

speud · Post by **speud** » Sun Aug 01, 2004 2:33 pm

but I didn't post anything because I didn't know the whole story, perhaps neither did Christuserloeser

if you dont know "the whole story" its useless to post your feelings. we are not judging fragger here, its just that i cant add his changes to my code, and it makes me mad because i told him several time i was working on parts i didnt want him to work on, but he did it anyway.

you didnt see his list of changes, nor my code and the time i spent on it, so i wonder what your reaction is based on. Christuserloeser's post was only implying that this release would be incomplete and rushed without fraggers changes, and that we were bashing him without respecting him for his previous work. nothing of that is true to me.

To end this post, don't blow a fuse.

do me a favor and dont tell me how i should react. if you ever coded something in your life it shouldnt be too hard to understand my feelings, if not then youre in no position to criticize my reaction.

Remember, communication is the best means of keeping the peace

i wonder how we went so far without clever people like you

Post by **Tyne** » Sun Aug 01, 2004 3:28 pm

Sad day indeed

Ian Micheal · Post by **Ian Micheal** » Sun Aug 01, 2004 3:36 pm

Any way I was planning this to be the last release of it final radquake finshed. Speud im happy with your work and how your did it.
Will not be any version from me with out speuds changes.

All i can say is sorry.

typoEDR · Post by **typoEDR** » Sun Aug 01, 2004 4:16 pm

speud wrote:if you dont know "the whole story" its useless to post your feelings. we are not judging fragger here, its just that i cant add his changes to my code, and it makes me mad because i told him several time i was working on parts i didnt want him to work on, but he did it anyway.

you didnt see his list of changes, nor my code and the time i spent on it, so i wonder what your reaction is based on. Christuserloeser's post was only implying that this release would be incomplete and rushed without fraggers changes, and that we were bashing him without respecting him for his previous work. nothing of that is true to me.

do me a favor and dont tell me how i should react. if you ever coded something in your life it shouldnt be too hard to understand my feelings, if not then youre in no position to criticize my reaction.

i wonder how we went so far without clever people like you

Listen, I apologize if my post came out the wrong way, and I didn't mean to further antagonize you. I appreciate all the work devs do for the DC scene.

Moi · Post by **Moi** » Mon Aug 02, 2004 3:25 pm

Well I took time to wite the whole "story" so Speud should not say I dont know what I am talking about...
I'm trying to describe how I'm seeng the situation the best I can to show how stupid and needless this descussion is...
Once again this is how I see the situation and noone has to agree with me...

Once there was a Dreamcast scene. Some warez group released a leaked
port of ID Software's Quake to the Dreamcast. People found out that it had the ability to run modifications. QuakeDC became a possibility of creating your own 3d shooters and more for the Dreamcast. Ajay released Raptors! and made proof for this possibility. The QuakeDev scene was born.
Fragger wanted to make QuakeDC more Dreamcast-friendly and started JoyMenu.
After donzens moths of work JoyMenu made QuakeDC looking like a commercial port of Quake for the Dreamcast. The only problem was that while using joymenu you couldnt run other mods at the same time. Fragger didnt stop and released HexQuake, an hexedited version of QuakeDC which in combination with JoyMenu made QuakeDC even better. But after this QuakeDC could not become even better because Fragger did not have access to the source code of this and his changes could only be made through engine modification.
So Fragger went over to Ian Micheal's open source RadQuake. At this time Ian improved the speed of RadQuake and added sound support for this. Both Ian and Fragger wanted to create an easy and legal possibility for creating games for the DC.
Fragger started to add some menu improvements to it, similar to the improvements seen in JoyMenu while Ian was working on SDL and Dreamcast's hardware specific stuff. A perfect RadQuake seemed to be on its way: Ian did the Dreamcast related part, Fragger did the Quake related part. Unfortunatelly Fragger's internet time was reduced dramatically because of real life problems so the team work sometimes was
difficult as seen in the version 4.5 of RadQuake...

Ian never could get saving support(which is for me a Dreamcast related part) to work and asked Speud for help. Some day Fragger could get online and wrote that he was going to release some of his (Quake side related) additions and Speud commented this with sentences like "I don't want to waste my time with work which we both do at the same time." because he did not know on what exactly Fragger was working on.
Fragger could not always reply to this at the right time because he had no internet access at that time, so it seemed that Fragger was somebody who prevents Speud from working on RadQuake which is of course not true because:

Ian Micheal and Speud are working working on the Dreamcast related things
while:
Fragger adds cosmetical changes to make the port more enjoyable for the end user
however:
both parties persuit the same goal to bring a perfect Quake port for the Dreamcast.

Problems are:
Fragger can not be online too often, so his additions sometimes can not be added to Speud's/Ian's work, because the additions are done for an outdated codebase.

My solution is: A priotity list.
Speud/Ian Micheal release a version of RadQuake and Fragger tries to add his changes to the fresh codebase. Because Speud's/Ian's changes are more difficult to implement.

So guys don't take me wrong. Those are only MY thoughts.
And Speud, if you decide not to release your work it would be a bigger waste of your time than releasing a version without Fragger's adds. And please try to be a little nicer to the people here...

I really respect you but I have to say sometimes you act a way too harsh...

speud · Post by **speud** » Mon Aug 02, 2004 3:58 pm

this is true (though i dont really see the point in writing this "intro"), until "Ian never could get saving support...".

i did modify almost everything he modified too, so thats just a total waste. i did tell him i didnt want to work on something from my side while he was working on the same thing from his side.

though, he modified the menus anyway, without even knowing the new files structure. the result is like i said many many times: the 2 versions are not compatible at all. which means that if we wanted to merge fraggers changes and mine in one version we would have to choose between fraggers changes or mine.

since i officially started this before him (not the whole project but the last update) after ians request, and i got my changes fully working (with vm support and all) before him, and since i warned him several time i didnt want to be in this situation, i think its fair enough to release my version without his changes.

im not the one who will decide if its the final release or not, personnally i see nothing wrong in the fact that fragger adds his changes in his own release, as long as what i did is used in a release too.

lastly, dont think that my changes are only "dc related", at least wait to have a look at the source before making this kind of comment.

And Speud, if you decide not to release your work it would be a bigger waste of your time than releasing a version without Fragger's adds

no, i did that for fun and i enjoyed coding it. im very perfectionnist and i worked a lot till i got a result that satisfied me enough. that would be really an offense to remove my changes with no reason. so if the version released by ian uses my changes thats fine for me, but if people start bashing this release with stupid comments meaning i disrespect fraggers work etc i prefere not to release it at all.

And please try to be a little nicer to the people here... I really respect you but I have to say sometimes you act a way too harsh...

err, sometimes i really do my best not to be too harsh with some people. when i know ive been too harsh for no reason im the first one to be sorry. but when some people just come and post useless crap that doesnt help and tend to make the situation even worse they get what they deserve.

ace · Post by **ace** » Mon Aug 02, 2004 4:07 pm

For Christs sake, Speud, get into one corner and just sit there staring at the wall. Reaper too. Honestly, you two act like spoilt children so often, it makes me really think that that is what you are. If you think that the staff of DCemu isn't watching you, you've got another thing coming to you.

speud · Post by **speud** » Mon Aug 02, 2004 4:17 pm

you call me a child while i did everything possible to include fraggers changes, im the one who waited for him and tried to make him work with me instead of working on his own release.

ace at the moment i am doing my best to stay polite, this is the kind of useless crap i mentionned. if you dont understand my reaction then dont post your comments, i really dont care of what you think and i wont listen to your "advices".

if i see more of these i wont release it, thats not a blackmail nor a childish attitude, im sick of people judging me for no reason. ive explained myself too many times.