DC and Saturn

Spector · Post by **Spector** » Fri Sep 24, 2004 4:34 pm

With the DC in a commercial sense a piece of gaming history (apart from the odd Japanese release), we can now look at it from a distance and judge it's "legacy", so to speak. We can also compare it's importance to other machines, namely the one that came before, The Saturn.
On a teletext gaming page in the UK, the editor wrote in answer to a question about the respective machines merits that the Dreamcast was better than the Saturn. I'd like to know what your opinion is of this. Try to be objective - I know this is a DC forum, but I'd like to hear your opinion on this question:
Which has contributed more to gaming - The Dreamcast or The Saturn?

Post by **Quzar** » Fri Sep 24, 2004 4:56 pm

I dont think many Saturn games could be considered truely revolutionary, with the closest possibly being Nights as the first game with a true 3D environment.

The Dreamcast was the first system with included online ability, Shenmue was supposedly revolutionary, and brought a slew of lossless arcade ports to the home, unlike any popular console before (Neo Geo doesn't count).

Green Ranger · Post by **Green Ranger** » Fri Sep 24, 2004 11:22 pm

The Dreamcast was the first system to include online capabilities? I recall seeing an ad in an old videogame magazine that showcased the Saturn having online capabilities too. Anybody else heard something about this

Post by **Quzar** » Sat Sep 25, 2004 12:01 am

NES, SNES, GEN and SAT all had the ability to go online with additional accessories, but the dreamcast was the first to have it included, by that i mean like... out of the box.

fatheadpi · Post by **fatheadpi** » Sat Sep 25, 2004 3:21 am

Also, the DC was the first console to really use online access for anything worthwhile.

The DC was the first to have a memory card that doubled as its own gaming device.

The DC was the first console to push past using conventional CD-Rom's for storage.

I'm sure the DC is the first to feature maraccas as a controller, let alone musical instruments.

bizzle · Post by **bizzle** » Sat Sep 25, 2004 7:17 am

Green Ranger wrote:The Dreamcast was the first system to include online capabilities? I recall seeing an ad in an old videogame magazine that showcased the Saturn having online capabilities too. Anybody else heard something about this

AFAIK it wasn't really "online". I think you could buy the add-on and just dial into your friends Saturn and connect directly to him/her.

cube_b3 · Post by **cube_b3** » Sat Sep 25, 2004 7:51 am

dreamcast could win the award of the most innovative and ahead of it's time system of all time award or something like it

Segata Sanshiro · Post by **Segata Sanshiro** » Sat Sep 25, 2004 10:20 am

BILAL_XIA wrote:dreamcast could win the award of the most innovative and ahead of it's time system of all time award

totally agree

Digital Chaos · Post by **Digital Chaos** » Sat Sep 25, 2004 2:36 pm

Dreamcast could also win for most KickAss.

nevets934 · Post by **nevets934** » Sat Sep 25, 2004 7:03 pm

the nes was online?????

Post by **Quzar** » Sat Sep 25, 2004 8:48 pm

nevets934 wrote:the nes was online?????

In japan you could use it to order food, bet on horse races and play go against friends.

Matisfaction · Post by **Matisfaction** » Sat Sep 25, 2004 9:02 pm

BILAL_XIA wrote:dreamcast could win the award of the most innovative and ahead of it's time system of all time award or something like it

Ahead of its time is right! Maybe people wernt ready for it at the time (well europe and the US maybe), + the DC can still stand up to anythin the PS2, XBOX, and GC can throw at it IMO.

Zealous zerotype · Post by **Zealous zerotype** » Sat Sep 25, 2004 9:35 pm

Matisfaction wrote:
BILAL_XIA wrote:dreamcast could win the award of the most innovative and ahead of it's time system of all time award or something like it
Ahead of its time is right! Maybe people wernt ready for it at the time (well europe and the US maybe), + the DC can still stand up to anythin the PS2, XBOX, and GC can throw at it IMO.

i find that true,yet at the same tiem not.Why?Well for 1 most casual gamers do not want the certain games that are for the dc.Also (Assuming you dont mean graphics which I will not include on making the game better)You just cant play your mario sunshine,or fps games(very few) on the dreamcast.I mean sure some one will probaly say "Well I can play the classic mario games!!!!11"Yes you can,but im talking about "real" games not emulators.It is great,no offense I just do not agree it can still hold it's own in every single aspect in some yes,it does.However in others it can come no where close.However overall I would nto say it is equal/better.I would consider it just behind by a notch but still great.

Post by **Quzar** » Sun Sep 26, 2004 1:15 am

IMO, the graphics between the SAT/PS/N64 and GC were a bigger jump than that between the DC and the PS2/GC/XBOX (currently it seems that the DC doesnt really fit into that generation since that generation still is out and all)

Bertrude · Post by **Bertrude** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 7:38 am

I've never had a Saturn to compare a DC to, but did plat on a friend's a couple of times, so I'll be brief.

These are more hardware/design based though:

Was the Saturn as noisy, because the DC is the noisiest console I've ever played on. It doesn't really bother me as I've been used to it for years now but when I first got it I was amazed at how noisy the disc accessing was.

The controller design is another issue. Generally I find it fine but the D-Pad is far too elevated and angular for use on some games, most notably the 2D fighters that require 1/2 and 1/4 rolls. How does it compare?

Phantom · Post by **Phantom** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 9:41 am

quzar wrote:IMO, the graphics between the SAT/PS/N64 and GC were a bigger jump than that between the DC and the PS2/GC/XBOX (currently it seems that the DC doesnt really fit into that generation since that generation still is out and all)

I consider the DC to be of the current generation of consoles. The fact that it's commercial death was premature outside of Japan doesn't change that IMO.

zero · Post by **zero** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 10:10 am

IMO, the graphics between the SAT/PS/N64 and GC were a bigger jump than that between the DC and the PS2/GC/XBOX

Maybe thats cos of this.
sat/ps1 32bit 94/95.
N64 64bit 96.
DC 128bit 99.
ps2 128bit 2000.
xbox 128bit 2001.
gc 128 bit 2001.
Ok im not sure if them release dates are 100% right, but im sure they are pretty close.
Anyways, my point is this, the dc had a 2 year jump in gfx over n64, and 4/5 year jump over psx and saturn, plus the dc was a 128bit system, the n64 was only 64bit, so you would see a big jump in gfx, now the ps2, xbox and gc are all 128bit systems just like the dc, in otherwords, the is only so much you can do, plus the jump wasn't that big in time from dc to ps to xbox etc, now the xbox and gc "Are" a lot more powerfull then the dc, and can do games that you would never see on it, and yes you can notice that by looking at games thats not made with the ps2 in mind first, some dc games looked just like psx games with smooted gfx, but do we say the dc was not that big of a jump from psx?, no we don't we look at the games that are not ports from another console, and then judge the quality of the system, so my point is that all 3 consoles, ps2,dc,xbox,gc are all 128 bit systems, the xbox and gc does have the biggest jump in gfx over dc(you can notice that by plauing a game thats made for each of them systems), how big of a jump where you expecting from 3 other 128bit systems??. the only time you will see the next big jump is with 256bit systems, and if then, and only then they look pretty much the same as this gen of systems, then you can complain about the jump not being that great.

Post by **Quzar** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 11:10 am

iirc n64 was 96, DC was 98 and PS2 was 2000 making it right in the middle of the two. Given that, i see a much bigger difference between the N64 and the DC then the DC and the PS2, making the DC ahead of its time graphics-wise.

As for the 128 bit-ness, the bitness of a system can refer to one of many things 1) the highest possible color depth possible with the system 2) any random size of a bus or processor apeture or such.

int80h · Post by **int80h** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 12:03 pm

sat/ps1 32bit 94/95.
N64 64bit 96.
DC 32 bit 99.
ps2 32 bit 2000.
xbox 32 bit 2001.
gc 32 bit 2001.

the '128' bit designation is just marketing, just like calling the tg-16 16 bit and neo geo 24 bit.

cube_b3 · Post by **cube_b3** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 12:25 pm

quzar wrote:IMO, the graphics between the SAT/PS/N64 and GC were a bigger jump than that between the DC and the PS2/GC/XBOX (currently it seems that the DC doesnt really fit into that generation since that generation still is out and all)

ato my knwoledge the insiders already new the information in november as a magazine is prepared 3 months before the actual month ...
the dc also had a rumor down in japan for graphical enhencments to fight xbox and GC if they did not pull the plug they would have listed dc on it cauz it can almost kick ps2's ass due to it's nifty programming..

however i'll give an "IF" for funif sega released dreamcast maybe 6 months late they could've had the dvd rom okay that is a little big "IF" but they would've had the expansionns like saturn Ram , Graphic etc...