Making a BBA?

Ex-Cyber · Post by **Ex-Cyber** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 7:46 pm

If you just want it for homebrew, it would be much easier to just do an original Ethernet adapter design and write a KOS driver for it. Hell, it could probably be done with a handful of 7400 logic and a CS8900A (the latter being a good bit more expensive than an RTL8139 at ~$10, but eliminates the need for a PCI bridge).

Prophet][ · Post by **Prophet][** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 6:54 am

The best way for homebrew in my mind would be to use the serial port to connect to a PC via USB and have a server program on the PC sending the net to the DC. Ok, this isn't superfast but it is fast enough for any internet use.

globalsize · Post by **globalsize** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 8:25 pm

Ex-cyber had a good idea there. Is it possible to find a software solution to a custom BBA? If we could find a hardware design we all agree on (for price and usability), homebrew designers could use drivers we make for online gaming. I don't think it's entirely impossible. There are pros and cons

pros
Price would no longer be a problem for online gaming for the DC
Using off the shelf parts, we could create a scene-universal design
Online Beats Of Rage (I can dream, can't I?)

cons
Adapters could only be used in homebrew games (w/ drivers integrated)
Will require a necessary amount of planning to pull it off
Will need to have something that WORKS, all the time. Nothing half-assed.

I think there would even be some money to be made if someone wanted to sell completed BBA's on the side.

I think it's safe to say that the future of Dreamcast online gaming is with the homebrews (what with PSO being axed and all). We have a good platform, but in order to fully utilize it we will need to take forms of hardware development into our own hands.

Post by **Roofus** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:18 pm

Here's the two big problems:

1) Homebrew hardware makers are few (if any, really) in number and won't make hardware that has no software support

2) Homebrew software makers, while greater in number, won't support non-existant hardware.

It'll never happen.

Ex-Cyber · Post by **Ex-Cyber** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 12:53 am

Unless you want to find a supplier for the connector (Molex made it, but it's a custom part exclusively for Sega), I don't think people will be very cool with having to solder on their DC mainboard just to attach an Ethernet interface that only supports homebrew.

globalsize · Post by **globalsize** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 5:28 pm

Then would it be possible to use the phone modem to load software? As in, connecting the DC to a PC's modem and using that 56k line. I know you can already use a PC to route the information to play PSO and what have you. I'm just wondering if you could use a modified Passport disk (for the dialer), and then load information as one might through the serial port. Since it's pretty difficult to stumble across the Coder's cable nowadays, using the phone modem might be an interesting variation.

I'll admit, I'm a noob to the DC's architecture, but the modem just seems like to good an option to give up on. Especially if we could make a ready-to-go disc that would allow an FTP like connection to a PC to load data. How exactly does the DC load a game through serial, anyway?

henzenmann · Post by **henzenmann** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 8:43 pm

A modem loader would be possible, but no one has made one yet. It would be a bit on the slow side though (keep in mind that many people only have the 33.6K modem, and KOS alone is already several 100KByte large). Still it would be nice to have such a modem loader, since it would really lower the entry barrier for DC coding.

How exactly does the DC load a game through serial, anyway?

On the DC, you boot dcload-serial, which is a small monitor that communicates with dctool-serial on the PC and allows uploading code into the DC's RAM (and then executing it). The DC's serial port is part of the SH4 CPU, which is fully documented. I'm not sure how much is known about the modem(s).

globalsize · Post by **globalsize** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 9:51 pm

33.6 kbs? I checked Wikipedia
" Modem: Removable; Original Asia/Japan model had a 33.6 kbit/s; models released after September 9, 1999 had a 56 kbit/s modem ", so I think North American and European models would be 56k (of course, I can't check mine until I get it back in a month

). We could probably have a software auto-switch that could choose the modem type, so it would choose the make and optimal speed. Of course, I haven't a clue how many different modem makes there were (hopefully less than the amount of DC makes)...

Does anyone know somebody who has some knowledge on how the modem works? I'm wondering if it would be possible to create a ethernet-type connection, with no need to dial, although that may be a tall order.

I'm thinking on the PC end we would need something to A) pick up the call, and B) hold the content for the DC to hoover up. Perhaps we could have the DC modem loader aim at a particular file on the hard drive (for linux, something like /dc/load/load.dc and for windows c:\dc\load\load.dc ["load.dc" being something like a configuration file]). This file would be modified on the PC end to point to the game files and send them down the pipe.

The Main RAM of a Dreamcast is 16 MB, so I'm wondering exactly how one loads games through the serial port, as in, 16 MB seems a bit on the small end. Nevertheless, for quite a few homebrews that would seem to be enough (and certainly for emulators, one could just adjust how many games they have loaded on the PC side). Anyway, on the 33 modem it would take about 8 minutes to fill the RAM, and on the 56 around 5. Considering the time it takes to burn a small homebrew to a disk, modem loading might be equivalent or a little over. For development, it would save tons of CDr's.

Juan · Post by **Juan** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 9:59 pm

globalsize wrote:33.6 kbs? I checked Wikipedia
" Modem: Removable; Original Asia/Japan model had a 33.6 kbit/s; models released after September 9, 1999 had a 56 kbit/s modem ", so I think North American and European models would be 56k (of course, I can't check mine until I get it back in a month ).

I think Europe got the 33.6k modem.

globalsize · Post by **globalsize** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 10:20 pm

Is it possible for the European DC's to use the NA 56k's?

phisejr · Post by **phisejr** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:27 am

OH how about making an RJ-11 spice it to a CAT5e and use the Modem on the DC or even replace the RJ-11 jack on the DC Modem and replace it with an ethernet port ?

Prophet][ · Post by **Prophet][** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 5:54 am

phisejr wrote:OH how about making an RJ-11 spice it to a CAT5e and use the Modem on the DC or even replace the RJ-11 jack on the DC Modem and replace it with an ethernet port ?

The speed limitation on the modem is not because of the plug it uses. It is because that is what the bus is set to. You can't just change no matter what you do.

kohan69 · Post by **kohan69** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:35 am

imho, the biggest problem is that so far too many people talk about it yet no one made a prototype.

how about writing a program that uses the existing usb coder's cable for two dreamcasts no communicate to each other through a PC ?

a very reasonable and plausible approach

Prophet][ · Post by **Prophet][** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 5:23 am

Many want a BBA so they can play old games online still (like PSO on shacks server) by not using or making a BBA exactly like the one SEGA released, you will not be able to play these games cos they don't support anything else. There is no way around this that is legal.

There is all talk and no prototype cos no option that has been presented is worth doing. It either can't be used for old games or isn't worth doing just for homebrew sakes.

TOB · Post by **TOB** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:36 am

Can an ATA (analog telephone adapter) be used to successfully translate the 56k modem to ethernet without the need for DC to PC guides that don't work and grand ideas to homebrew a BBA that never get anywhere? Just asking because it seems to me that the homemade BBA has been talked to death and probably won't happen, ever. The signal that the modem sends is a series of one's and zero's (on's and off's), this is the same as an analog telephone. The ATA would in theory translate the signal to be used over a DSL or broadband network like a VOIP phone. Just a thought.

FamilyGuy · Post by **FamilyGuy** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:03 am

But the speed will still be about as slow since the modem itself can't handle more than 56kbit/s of data ...

-=FamilyGuy=-

TOB · Post by **TOB** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:23 pm

That's not the point. What I am proposing is simply a way to use it online without the hassle of tying up a phone line. By being able to use it over a network then those that don't have the BBA can still enjoy a stable and realistic solution to the BBA shortage.

Prophet][ · Post by **Prophet][** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:46 am

naw, it won't work. There is no way you can convert a modem to work with a switch/router/hub/broadband. The best way would be if someone just made an easier way to hook it upto a PC.

Morphv2 · Post by **Morphv2** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 11:04 am

Here are a couple of USB modules made by a gentleman I cannot remember who.

Serial USB

G2 Bus USB

First, I'd like to point out how DIFFICULT THOSE FREAKIN LOOK. Second, you have to take into hardware limitations. The Serial USB port would have a maximum transfer rate of 1.5Mb/s, and thats if you found some kinda magical IC that translated serial -> USB in a lossless manner. The G2 USB port, holy flaming crapburgers. It would have a maximum bandwidth of 50MB/s, but I would rather choke to death on my own saliva than try to make something like that.

USB NICs, USB wireless adaptors, etc. That would be the most feasable, and even then it'd be hella complicated and you'd need to have a custom piece of software designed to use the port/adaptor. It's effectively impossible.

Making a BBA?

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