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PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2004 5:55 am 
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quzar wrote:
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(MCSA)


? What does that mean?



Well it's uploaded now so all's good. To anwser Multiple Choice Story Adventure (MCSA).

meaing just like those old books most kids loved in the 80's Were there's one story with lots of endings and death scenes. Lot of reading in the game so no fast twitch muscles are needed at this point.

Any way thanks to every one that's helped me in the last 2 years im quiet happy with my progress just of late.

Good luck to every one.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2004 5:37 pm 
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I uploaded Maqiupai

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2004 8:09 pm 
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Mental DCEmu
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JMD - dig the font in the game. I was gonna ask if you're a native japanese speaker, until I looked closer at the ingame text. Good stuff. I'll definitely enjoy shanghai-style games. :D

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2004 9:40 pm 
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Once all the games are in we should make like a big cdi, nrg, or sbi of the games so they all will be on one cd quickly. Kinda like the dcevolution christmas demo release.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2004 10:05 pm 
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Dan Loosen (GOAT) wrote:
The original rules were that you could release the game for free if
you wanted to. Due to the extreme cost of printing and shipping the games,
we had to change that rule. If you want to release your full game online,
we simply cannot publish it. I apologize for any difference that this may
make, but getting professionally printed CDs is not something that can be
done in small quantities and due to that, we cannot have the full versions
flying around online. I hope that everyone understands that. Again, if
you do win and want to release the game for free, that is your full right
to do so. It just means that you will have to forfeit getting your game
professionally pressed.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2004 11:13 pm 
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Ouch, that's a tough decision. You either get your game to pressing, allowing for a more professional looking presentation (which also looks good on the resume, btw), or you allow it to be distributed online free of charge, which easily makes for more widespread exposure.

Unless I'm seeing some sort of profit from the limited distribution, if I was making a homebrew I'd opt for releasing it free online. More exposure = more likely to be seen by influencial people.

I'll support this either way. Shikigami No Shiro II will be released fairly soon, so I'll have reason to get this disc, but I wouldn't be surprised to see a fair amount of devvers decide against having thier game go to press.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 12:15 am 
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...well...

I don't know if I agree with your statements. Feet of Fury was Slashdotted, featured in an article in EGM and has found it's way to Lik-Sang. The two games that win, if pressed, will both be mentioned in the radio campaign on Lazer 103 for the event I am helping to co-organize -- the Midwest Gaming Classic. While a homebrew project may be seen by more people, it is less likely to be seen by a lot of the people outside of the Dreamcast community in my opinion.

Also, the way that we handle things is that the developers are paid upon the first copy being sold. While no one will ever get rich selling Dreamcast games, if you're programming them anyways, it gives you a good reason to shore everything up.

It is, of course, up to each developer. I wish that we could all have our cake and eat it too, but with each release there is a huge risk involved on our end in the way of money. GOAT Store Publishing is not a "huge publishing house" or anything like that. We're two guys that absolutely adore the Dreamcast and we're willing to stick out our necks to help developers that want to put out a truly quality release including pressed copies and so on. If these games don't sell well, we won't have the funds to keep producing more in the future. If they do well, we will turn anything that we make into the funding that goes to create the next set of games.

We got involved with this because my partner Gary and I wanted to get some more games to add to our Dreamcast collections, and Sega had already pulled the plug. I'm as giddy as a kid at Christmas right now hearing that some quality work is coming in. I can't wait to see what I'll be taking to the Midwest Gaming Classic!


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 12:36 am 
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Mental DCEmu
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If I remember correctly, FoF was mentioned on /. before the final version was "commercially" released, and I think that Cool Herders and the port of Quake was also mentioned in EGM as part of their DC: Life after Death article. My point? The exposure was there before FoF was sold as a commercial product.

Please, don't get me wrong. I appreciate what GOAT Store Publishing is doing. As I said previously, I fully intend to support both you and the homebrew developers by picking the next release up when I get my next DC import game. I would absolutely love to see the Dreamcast have an almost Atari-like renaissance, where one or two folks can sit down, and create a game that people are genuinely interested enough in to pay for.

However, if I was to dedicate time and energy into developing and producing software for the Dreamcast, it would be for two reasons: personal enjoyment/education, and portfolio fodder. I'm sure many of the devvers here would like nothing better than to have a development house see their work, and say "Hey, we were impressed with X on your DC effort, and wanted to know if you'd be interested in a programming position at our company." And I'm just wary of the amount of people (at this time) who would be interested in purchasing a game from someone that they don't know, as opposed to a free download.

EDIT: Oh, and when/where is this Midwest Gaming thingy being held? I'm in Minnesota, and I'd love to see what other wares are being put on display!

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Last edited by Mr. Jones on Wed Mar 17, 2004 7:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 12:50 am 
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I agree And support Dan and Goat Store Really great guys. I had quiet a few problems with, The game i wanted to enter most of it was damaged same with my files and computers. So I had to take a game that was not ready and make it at lest playable. It was going to be and could be a lot better Whispered secrets. But the story is good if you like these things. I never expect to win or come any were with this game i just wanted to not disapoint people and get some thing out from me.


It was looking like it would not happen. My game does look like an amiga game but that cant be helped i did not have the time.

Is there a list of all the games entered be good to look at .


JMD great idea and game not played it yet but that style is allways fun.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 9:29 am 
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Mr. Jones wrote:
If I remember correctly, FoF was mentioned on /. before the final version was "commercially" released, and I think that Cool Herders and the port of Quake was also mentioned in EGM as part of their DC: Life after Death article. My point? The exposure was there before FoF was sold as a commercial product.


The /. article is here:

http://games.slashdot.org/games/03/05/2 ... 27&tid=186

The article was announced approximately one week before the game was released, and it was available for pre-purchase already.

The article in EGM also mentioned Cool Herders and Bloop, as were suggested by me (amongst some other stuff that they looked at) to the EGM editor that wrote that article as some other cool Dreamcast stuff. I was very involved with getting FoF into EGM.

My point is that the exposure wasn't really there until we had a physical product that could back us up.

Quote:
Please, don't get me wrong. I appreciate what GOAT Store Publishing is doing. As I said previously, I fully intend to support both you and the homebrew developers by picking the next release up when I get my next DC import game. I would absolutely love to see the Dreamcast have an almost Atari-like renaissance, where one or two folks can sit down, and create a game that people are genuinely interested enough in to pay for.


Thus is actually the problem with the Dreamcast. An Atari release generally sells less than 100 copies. You can produce a handful of games at a time, instead of being stuck with a huge number. With Dreamcast production, you *must* press at least 1000 copies of a game. It means that there is a HUGE barrier for entry into creating professionally pressed games, and that the game quality really needs to be high. Development time for a Dreamcast game therefore would, in theory, take much longer to complete because of this fact.

If I took the time to complete an entire game, I would want my game to both be seen by as many people as possible, and I would like to get some sort of return on my investment. Obviously, there is a conflict there as you can't easily get the best of both worlds. All that we're doing is providing the option for a real pressing if the parties are interested.

Quote:
However, if I was to dedicate time and energy into developing and producing software for the Dreamcast, it would be for two reasons: personal enjoyment/education, and portfolio fodder. I'm sure many of the devvers here would like nothing better than to have a development house see their work, and say "Hey, we were impressed with X on your DC effort, and wanted to know if you'd be interested in a programming position at our company." And I'm just wary of the amount of people (at this time) who would be interested in purchasing a game from someone that they don't know, as opposed to a free download.


I understand where you are coming from, but at the same point I think that it would be just as effective to state that your game was actually pressed and published. Again, it is mostly a personal preference, and I can fully understand a person going either way on it.

Quote:
EDIT: Oh, and when/where is this Midwest Gaming thingy being held? I'm in Minnesota, and I'd love to see what other wares are being put on display!


Milwaukee, Wisconsin on May 22nd and 23rd. You can check out more information at http://www.midwestgamingclassic.com/

We've got a few surprises up our sleeves in the way of Dreamcast games being developed. I think a lot of people will be really surprised to see what is back on :D


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 Post subject: Inhabitants
PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 10:54 am 
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Uploading Inhabitants as we speak.

A shame I didnt get to add everything I'd hoped by the deadline, but the build I'm submitting is rather nice, even if I say so myself.

Anyways, I don't care who wins what. I just think it's great to see such support of the DC homebrew community.

Anyways

-B


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 11:04 am 
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JMD, what happened to the link?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 11:06 am 
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Mental DCEmu
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goatdan wrote:
The article was announced approximately one week before the game was released, and it was available for pre-purchase already.

My point is that the exposure wasn't really there until we had a physical product that could back us up.


I see your (very valid) point. I'll still argue that the exposure of the game is more broad with a free download, as opposed to commercial pressing. You'll get to more people, faster, and for less cost. I'd even go as far as saying that EGM would have still made the article regarding Dreamcast homebrew, without seeing a pressed disc. Dan could have easily submitted a burned CD with label & inserts to their offices. But that's just getting into speculation after the fact, and I'm not one to argue just for the sake of arguing.

Quote:
Thus is actually the problem with the Dreamcast. An Atari release generally sells less than 100 copies. You can produce a handful of games at a time, instead of being stuck with a huge number. With Dreamcast production, you *must* press at least 1000 copies of a game. It means that there is a HUGE barrier for entry into creating professionally pressed games, and that the game quality really needs to be high. Development time for a Dreamcast game therefore would, in theory, take much longer to complete because of this fact.


Agreed wholeheartedly. I usually expect a team of 3 homebrew devvers to take at LEAST 8 months to create a whole original game. Since many of the guys here are doing one-man projects - at least a year. It is possible to make press runs of 500 pieces, but its definitely not cost-effective.

Quote:
Quote:
EDIT: Oh, and when/where is this Midwest Gaming thingy being held? I'm in Minnesota, and I'd love to see what other wares are being put on display!


Milwaukee, Wisconsin on May 22nd and 23rd. You can check out more information at http://www.midwestgamingclassic.com/

We've got a few surprises up our sleeves in the way of Dreamcast games being developed. I think a lot of people will be really surprised to see what is back on :D


Sweet. That's only 320 miles away! ;) I'll hafta find a couple other geekers that would be up to makin' the road trip. I'll be able to see what the nuts over at AtariAge have been up to as well. Sounds like a fun time...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 12:30 pm 
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This statement refers to independent (homebrew) game development in general. I think there more cases of originality in these types of games because risk isn't a factor as it is with corporate game development.

Am I being coherent... anyway, these entries should all be interesting.

- Steve


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:23 pm 
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how about a preorder thing like metafox's game?


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 2:14 pm 
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Mr. Jones wrote:
I see your (very valid) point. I'll still argue that the exposure of the game is more broad with a free download, as opposed to commercial pressing. You'll get to more people, faster, and for less cost. I'd even go as far as saying that EGM would have still made the article regarding Dreamcast homebrew, without seeing a pressed disc. Dan could have easily submitted a burned CD with label & inserts to their offices. But that's just getting into speculation after the fact, and I'm not one to argue just for the sake of arguing.


I emailed the editor who wrote that, and they weren't interested in putting anything into print until they could see the final product in hand.

The basic idea is that anyone can burn a CD and send it out, but actually putting the time into testing it and then sending it out is something different, and is therefore more interesting to the reader. I still have the email logs on all of that, honestly.

Quote:
Agreed wholeheartedly. I usually expect a team of 3 homebrew devvers to take at LEAST 8 months to create a whole original game. Since many of the guys here are doing one-man projects - at least a year. It is possible to make press runs of 500 pieces, but its definitely not cost-effective.


You are absolutely right on both points. The problem is that the places that run 500 discs don't usually press them, and because of that there is a higher cost to the medium.

Quote:
Sweet. That's only 320 miles away! ;) I'll hafta find a couple other geekers that would be up to makin' the road trip. I'll be able to see what the nuts over at AtariAge have been up to as well. Sounds like a fun time...


It should be! There's a ton more announcements that are still on their way for this event too. We've got a lot of stuff planned, it's just a matter of getting it all to come together.

S. Thompson wrote:
This statement refers to independent (homebrew) game development in general. I think there more cases of originality in these types of games because risk isn't a factor as it is with corporate game development.


Exactly! In fact, I would argue that homebrew releases are more creative than big releases because the more original the game is, the easier it is to interest people in it and so on. One of the reasons that I got so into the Dreamcast was because even when Sega was at the helm, a lot of the game designs seem to be more willing to go out on a limb to try new stuff.

JuniorCrb wrote:
how about a preorder thing like metafox's game?


We will do a preorder thing, starting on or around the beginning of next month. There are serious problems about using a preorder thing to actually judge when to do production though:

- If we accept money and there aren't too many people that sign up, we have to give back all of the money which actually loses us money due to fees from transactions.
- If we don't accept money, it seems that about 1/2 of the preorders don't actually purchase the final product.

There are other problems that I see with basing it all on preorders. Again, there will be a preorder for both of these games and they should ship out on May 24th via Priority Mail unless anything unforeseen happens before that point in time.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 2:33 pm 
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WillSams wrote:
what happened to the link?


The page http://jm1200.ifrance.com/jm1200/maqiupai/index.htm is frequently down. Now it seems to be up.

I use Firebird in general but I tried it with Internet Explorer .... Wow so many pop up :( .

iFrance isn't so good.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 3:09 pm 
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goatdan wrote:
Mr. Jones wrote:
I see your (very valid) point. I'll still argue that the exposure of the game is more broad with a free download, as opposed to commercial pressing. You'll get to more people, faster, and for less cost. I'd even go as far as saying that EGM would have still made the article regarding Dreamcast homebrew, without seeing a pressed disc. Dan could have easily submitted a burned CD with label & inserts to their offices. But that's just getting into speculation after the fact, and I'm not one to argue just for the sake of arguing.


I emailed the editor who wrote that, and they weren't interested in putting anything into print until they could see the final product in hand.

The basic idea is that anyone can burn a CD and send it out, but actually putting the time into testing it and then sending it out is something different, and is therefore more interesting to the reader. I still have the email logs on all of that, honestly.


Heh, I'm actually quoting myself here...

I also meant to say in this that you are 100% correct that you can distribute a free download quicker and to more people with less of a cost. At the same time, I'm not saying that doing such a thing is a bad thing in any way. I think it all depends on what you are looking to get out of the experience of making a game and which way you want to take it. As a developer, you can always edit and update your game at your leisure if you read comments from others about things that they would like in the game. The game can continue to get better forever, and it is easy to send out updates. Actually pressing the game eliminates that experience.

On the other hand, pressing the game gives you both a time limit to work with and the experience of working on squashing bugs and actually "finalizing" a product. The experience is completely different and is much more stressful. It also requires more work because... if you're not working on it, people aren't going to purchase the game when it is finished.

There are pros and cons to both ways and it is completely up to the individual which way to take, of course.

I absolutely love my Dreamcast, and if I had the time and ability to I would create some games. While I don't have either the time or ability right now to create games, I do have the ability, resources and distribution channels to publish games so I figured that I would help out anyone that could develop with that option. :D

Hopefully, that clarifies what I said before a little more :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 3:34 pm 
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Mr. Jones wrote:
Unless I'm seeing some sort of profit from the limited distribution, if I was making a homebrew I'd opt for releasing it free online. More exposure = more likely to be seen by influencial people.


I was going to stay out of this, but what I'm about to say may bother people on both sides of the argument. One, you have to take into account if you released it for free, you aren't actually exposing the game to anyone new. Two, the same can be said about getting it pressed professionally but more people (and agents) outside of the scene will link to it and take notice. But, it's basically throwing a bunch of "hail Mary's" to expose the game to any new "willing" buyers. Still, winning and getting the game pressed is the way to go. Don't knock the Goat Store for their dedication to the scene.

The one thing I've noticed from the years I've spent in this scene is the fact this scene really, really only reaches a limited amount of video gamers. When the DC was active, ownership of the consoles were limited. So, basically this scene is limited & handicapped by this. Since everyone outside the scene just want emuators, homebrew won't attract them. This scene is handicapped, and it will always be that way. I'm not trying to put a bleak spin on it; I love this scene when it's fun. I wouldn't be here if I thought the entire scene was hopeless.

Btw, JMD, I love Mah-jongg. I can't wait :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 3:52 pm 
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WillSams wrote:
Don't knock the Goat Store for their dedication to the scene.


Honestly, I don't feel like we were being knocked in any way. As I've said all along, there is pros and cons to both sides. You named some in your original post too, and I think that Mr. Jones simply thinks the pros of doing a free release outweigh the pros of doing a homebrew "commercial" release, which is a completely valid opinion.

Quote:
The one thing I've noticed from the years I've spent in this scene is the fact this scene really, really only reaches a limited amount of video gamers. When the DC was active, ownership of the consoles were limited. So, basically this scene is limited & handicapped by this. Since everyone outside the scene just want emuators, homebrew won't attract them. This scene is handicapped, and it will always be that way. I'm not trying to put a bleak spin on it; I love this scene when it's fun. I wouldn't be here if I thought the entire scene was hopeless.


I agree with this point entirely. I think that it will help all involved with the scene if more games are released via pressing because it seems that the homebrew scenes of all of the Atari systems really became "noticed" once they had a bunch of games floating around in them. One game released is an oddity. Once five or more are released, people start to take notice and interest gets piqued.

The thing that is nicer about the Dreamcast community is that there are more people that own Dreamcasts than Atari Jaguar's for instance. The potential of the scene growing large enough to actually attract some mainstream attention is better for the Dreamcast than it is for the Jaguar, or even the 2600. The problem is tapping that potential and making something come of it.

I definitely think that the Dreamcast homebrew community has some of the most creative games and has been able to put a polish on the games that is really rare to see. Who knows what will come in the future?


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