Hello all

Derived Class · Post by **Derived Class** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 1:36 pm

Good afternoon all!

I wanted to say thanks to the hosts. I am a dedicated gamer from a long ways back. I just got a Dreamcast and a slew of games for next to nothing, and I really am getting a huge amount of joy out of it. Its taking time from my Xbox gaming, even! The concept of creating my own game is really exciting.

Anyway, I am also a programmer, C# and VB.NETmostly, but know enough of C++ to make me dangerous. Ive read some of the FAQs about getting a development system up and running for creating games on the DC. My DC is an older one (apparently the first versions supported booting to CDR, but the newer ones dont - I can boot to CDR), and I am enormously interested in game programming (done a bit on Win32 platform, nothing for Unix/Linux), and I have a few Qs about some dos and donts.

- The Dreamcast "supports" Windows CE. I assume I have access to all CE libraries? Or is it a subset of the libraries (like the .Net Compact Framework is a subset of the entire .Net Framework)? If so, where can I check out what's there and what isnt?

- All of the tutorials I have found have been rather high level. Is there anything available that resembles a simple "Hello World" app, or can I just write a quickie main function that does this (to see if all is well)?

- what graphical libraries (DirectX?) are available to me on the DC?

I have SO many more, but I'll start with these 3. Thanks for your help.

Derived Class

q_006 · Post by **q_006** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 1:45 pm

Let me be one of the first to say Welcome!

Now onto your questions.

1) Unfortunately the CE libraries are only licensed to professional game developers/companies. Also the CE libraries are custom made for the DC.
Therefore, we will not be getting a legal, distributable SDK, ever.

1b) The library we do use though is called KOS. It's on version 1.3.x.
It supports, 2D and 3D graphics programming and has some libraries for it such as:
Iris 3D, KGL (Open GL port), DC Land (to name a few) ....also SDL.

2) some of the tutorials are a little high especially if you haven't programmed for games before. This is why we have a sticky (it's blatantly obvious, can't miss it) in this forum. And any help you need, the community is more than happy to lend a hand.

3) check out 1b.

i'm pretty sure you have more questions, so ask away.

Derived Class · Post by **Derived Class** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 1:52 pm

q_006 wrote:Let me be one of the first to say Welcome!

Now onto your questions.

1) Unfortunately the CE libraries are only licensed to professional game developers/companies. Also the CE libraries are custom made for the DC.
Therefore, we will not be getting a legal, distributable SDK, ever.

1b) The library we do use though is called KOS. It's on version 1.3.x.
It supports, 2D and 3D graphics programming and has some libraries for it such as:
Iris 3D, KGL (Open GL port), DC Land (to name a few) ....also SDL.

2) some of the tutorials are a little high especially if you haven't programmed for games before. This is why we have a sticky (it's blatantly obvious, can't miss it) in this forum. And any help you need, the community is more than happy to lend a hand.

3) check out 1b.

i'm pretty sure you have more questions, so ask away.

Hi q_006... Thanks for the warm welcome.

I have heard much about this SDL... So here comes my next question.

The C++ I do write is written using Visual Studio.NET, which is 98% ANSI compliant... and I will have to be an IDE/Intellisense baby while I learn more C++... But I assume that I will not have access to any of these goodies when I begin development... is an IDE available? Can I use VC++ to code, practically (Ive read that you need the Cygwin tool to compile)...

Should I fire up my Red Hat 9 linux box or can I expect to code just as well on my Win 2000 box?

::peanut gallery shoves handkerchief in DC's mouth, dragging him away::

ragnarok2040 · Post by **ragnarok2040** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 1:56 pm

You can use VC++ with DC Development, but you need some things to set it up. The Pern Project has everything you need to set it up.

Derived Class · Post by **Derived Class** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 2:02 pm

outstanding. thanks ragnarok. I guess I have plans tonight (well, after I build my cable)

q_006 · Post by **q_006** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 2:07 pm

You said build a cable.
As in a coder's cable?

If that's the case, then you can just buy one from http://www.lik-sang.com for $20.
Unless, of course, you're an EE major and can get the parts cheap from Radio Shack

Vorrtexx · Post by **Vorrtexx** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 2:08 pm

The KOS examples has a hello world example

I think it's in C.

As for the IDE, I do all my coding through VC++ 6. I created a Project setup which links VC++ into the cygwin dc dev setup.
from that I can compile my programs with the custom .mak (Makefile).
And edit it to add my c/cpp files to the list to compile, the libraries I want to link in to and to include extra INCLUDE paths if necessary.

Derived Class · Post by **Derived Class** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 2:10 pm

q_006 wrote:You said build a cable.
As in a coder's cable?

If that's the case, then you can just buy one from http://www.lik-sang.com for $20.
Unless, of course, you're an EE major and can get the parts cheap from Radio Shack

im a do it yourselfer. ive built a few robots in my day, and might be able to put it together from some scrap ive got. besides - it gives me something to do while the wife watches american idol

Derived Class · Post by **Derived Class** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 2:20 pm

q_006 wrote:You said build a cable.
As in a coder's cable?

If that's the case, then you can just buy one from http://www.lik-sang.com for $20.
Unless, of course, you're an EE major and can get the parts cheap from Radio Shack

bah - those parts are hard to find, and pricey. in 2 - 4 weeks, i should have my coders cable.

that gives me time to read my C++ books! is there any other emu-type environment that I can use on my PC until I get the cable?

q_006 · Post by **q_006** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 2:36 pm

word of caution.
99.7 % of DC programming is done C not C++, I repeat : C

So make sure you're reading the right books.
cout << won't work; you'll have to use printf( );

for an easy time of it. Go to the link Ragnarok gave you earlier, and download those files. You'll have a headstart on the game and be able to practice some coding.

Make sure you look at the example source codes......

Derived Class · Post by **Derived Class** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 2:58 pm

q_006 wrote:word of caution.
99.7 % of DC programming is done C not C++, I repeat : C

So make sure you're reading the right books.
cout << won't work; you'll have to use printf( );

for an easy time of it. Go to the link Ragnarok gave you earlier, and download those files. You'll have a headstart on the game and be able to practice some coding.

Make sure you look at the example source codes......

got it... c++

ill check out the links. i have 1 C book thats pretty ancient. not even sure if the compiler will work under win32. Guess I'm going with linux.

Egad - i'm an MCSD developer. did I just say that?

q_006 · Post by **q_006** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 3:05 pm

lol.

good C

but seriously the Pern Project will sync with your VC6, so you shouldn't have a problem.
so linux won't be your life ....yet

BlackAura · Post by **BlackAura** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 6:14 pm

Basically, the tools we use are all Unix-ish tools, mostly GNU stuff.

As has been mentioned, you can use Visual Studio 6 as an IDE. I'm not sure about VS.NET though. I don't know if you'll get any code completion or anything like that, because the header files are completely different from the Win32 ones that come with MSVC. For a start, MSVC can't actually compile many of them, they use one or two GCC-specific features, and they're spread over multiple directories.

You can use pretty much any IDE you want, actually. As long as you can set it up to produce the appropriate output (using custom build options, or whatever), it should be fine. If the IDE uses GCC as it's compiler anyway, it should be easier - you should be able to point it to the Dreamcast versions, give it the appropriate paramaters for the compiler/linker, and it should work.

The libraries / OS that we use is called KallistiOS. It's vaugely Unix-ish, but also acts a bit like DOS in some ways - you have full control over the hardware, and the part which passes for an OS (the filesystem, threading, memory management, and all that stuff) is very minimalist. There are a few features that simply aren't present (some C library functions, the entire C++ standard template library, memory protection, and other stuff which isn't really appropriate for a games console), and a couple of others which might not work quite as you'd expect.

Derived Class · Post by **Derived Class** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 7:45 pm

You guys are great, thanks for the direction. Im going to shoot for the stars and see about the feasibility of a TimePilot homebrew. Ive seen it done in Java, so I'm sure I can do it for the DC