3D Castlevania...looking for help

[DaMadFiddler]

Hi-

Longtime lurker, first time poster, you know the drill. I have an idea, a project, and I'm looking for assistance. Hopefully this is in the right forum; I wasn't sure whether it belonged here or in Development Ideas, since it's rather more of a project beginning than a casual idea being thrown out.

[sorry; a bit of introduction first]

I've had a Dreamcast since 2001 and [hangs head in shame] made an egregious error in selling it off in favor of a Gamecube last summer. Fortunately, I still have most of my games...and let me tell you, I love my 'Cube, but it wasn't six months before I went crawling back to the gamestore to get a new Dreamcast.

But anyway, to stay on topic:

Castlevania has always been my #1 favorite game franchise, since I was a little kid playing through the first installments on a shiny new NES. I own nearly every game in the series (excluding 64, Legacy of Darkness, and Lament of Innocence, since I do not have hardware capable of playing them)...and I've been dying for a new digital project for some time now. But I need help.

Since the Dreamcast was robbed of Resurrection due to an unfortunate series of internal events at Konami, I would very much like to see a Castlevania game native to this wonderful hardware. Therefore, I am beginning work on a fully 3D remake of the acclaimed "Symphony of the Night." It's an INSANELY ambitious project, I know. But I'm willing to do the work, if I can find a few dedicated people to help me pull it together.

Here's the problem: I am very, VERY new to console development. I've written several games and applications for the TI-85 and 86 graphing calculator, and a few things (mostly Sonic the Hedgehog fangames) for the PC, but all of these were created in proprietary BASIC scripting languages. My only experience with more sophistocated code is a smattering of C++ from an AP CompSci course I took in high school.

In other words: I need coders. I can do all the artistic work; I can do all the sound recording, music, art, and texture work...I can do some of the models if necessary (although I'm not sure that I'd have time to do all of them), and I can do any kind of work that doesn't require actual, hard coding (for example, help with map creation if a level editor or level scripting language were created for this).

I know I don't have what it takes on my own...and most people probably take it as a bad sign when a project starts out with no actual programmers to code it. But I have the interest, and I have the means and experience to create all the non-technical aspects that usually end up getting overlooked or slapped together in most homebrew titles.

But if I can find people willing to do this with me, I'll stick with it to completion and contribute all I've got. Here is my preliminary game proposal:

-a near-exact clone of "Castlevania: Symphony of the Night" in full 3D (if you're confused as to what this means, think the Green Hill hidden stage in SA2...except on a much larger scale)

-remapped controls, to take advantage of the Dreamcast's controller design

-slight changes to map layout, to utilize 3D environment and "complete" the game (my ideal is to use the SEGA Saturn map for reference, since the SS version of the game had a couple of extra areas over the Playstation edition). Rooms and halls will also be separated out a little bit more to reduce individual map sizes for load times, etc. (I don't think anybody here yet knows how to do datastreaming, or would want to mess with it even if they did).

-remixed, re-recorded SotN soundtrack (I am a classical violinist and composer, I live with two other musicians--one guitarist and one electronic artist--so this is no trouble)...also may look into seeking support in this aspect from members of OverClocked Remix

-re-recorded voice-overs and sound FX (SotN's sounds aren't bad...but this ensures that we're not "stealing" any of Konami's property...and besides, SotN's voice-acting is horrendous). One of my housemates is in film, so we have access to all sorts of sound equipment and libraries. Also hoping to perhaps add a few extra voice-overs that didn't exist in the original game at important plot points.

-VMU gamesaves and display (it would be neat--and shouldn't take too much effort--to have character stats shown there...although my ideal would be to have it show a mini-map)



...So that's my dream. I've already done some preliminary sound/art work for the project, which I will post over the next several days as time permits. And just a few questions, for those who would know...has KOS reached a point where it would be a feasible tool for developing this project? I have tried to develop a concept which would be difficult but possible...however, if this is just too insanely unrealistic for anyone who might like to help, I would be willing to settle for a 2D remake as a last resort.

Anyone willing to help with this would be GREATLY appreciated; contact me by replying to this post, or on AIM at DaMadFiddler or via e-mail at thewalkman@seanbaby.com. Any outside thoughts or comments would also be greatly appreciated.

[rusty]

Sounds like an interesting idea.

I'd be very interested in helping out. It sounds like a very cool project, and very ambitious. Unfortunatley, I have NO interest or experience in sound coding, but 3D engine/gx, game code and dyamics are what I do best.

I'd be more than happy to help you out with any/all of those.

[DaMadFiddler]

Additional thoughts I left out above:

Graphics

IDEAL: As far as in-game display is concerned, I am preliminarily thinking more of a chase-cam (Castlevania 64-style) than the fixed viewpoint of Lament of Innocence. This is--in my opinion--a more immersive system, although I realize it would also be far more complex...and a lot more work would have to be put into textures, lighting, and modelling to maintain a decent standard. This idea may be a pipe-dream, unless I can find a very dedicated graphics coder.

EASIER ALTERNATIVE: However, since I am no giant when it comes to programming, this really depends on whoever I can find to do the graphics. If the follow-camera idea becomes too complicated or trouble-ridden, a fixed view (Lament of Innocence, Resident Evil, etc.) would not be unacceptable. This would allow several aspects of the environment to be still images or pseudo-sprites, which would save enormously on load time, disk space, and CPU/GPU usage. The only disadvantage to this is that an entirely separate set of images and maps would have to be made for the inverse castle, whereas the full-3D method would only have to flip existing map data.

OR: A third idea, which was exercised rather heavily in the 32-bit generation, would be to have fixed-perspective regular gameplay with full-3D boss fights.


Sound

MUSIC: As I said, I am re-scoring and recording all of the music, so it would either be in CD-Audio or (since audio tracks devour disk space) digital audio file format. That means that it only needs a simple playback routine, and the DC's synthesis functions will not be needed (I know those can get a bit tricky, and I'm not sure they're entirely figured out yet anyway).

SOUND EFFECTS: I am also working on creating and/or acquiring any necessary sounds for the game from free, legitimate sources.

VOICE ACTING: Some friends and I have begun re-recording some of the script, and I can take care of doing all this (unless someone else really wants to voice a particular character).


Level Design

I haven't done much work on it yet, but I have begun a couple preliminary sketches of map areas. This will probably be the most time-consuming part of the project, but the amount and nature of the work depends on whether the project ends up being built on a full-3D or a fixed-perspective graphics engine.


Artwork

I'll have a few (VERY rough) title, menu and character sketches up in the next week or so, along with (hopefully) a track or two of the music and a few example sound effects, to show how the game is progressing.


Controls

Here are a couple of alternate rough plans for the control scheme:

[assuming full-3D environment]
-Analog stick: move Alucard
-D-pad: camera/transform
-A button: jump
-B button: weapon hand
-X button: sub-weapon
-Y button: backdash
-L trigger: map screen
-R trigger: block
-START button: sub-menu

[assuming fixed-perspective environment]
-Analog stick: move Alucard
-D-pad: "shortcut" keys
-A button: jump
-B button: weapon hand
-X button: sub-weapon
-Y button: backdash
-L trigger: map screen
-R trigger: block
-START button: sub-menu

CHANGES FROM ORIGINAL: here are the changes to my proposed control schemes as compared with the original SotN controls, which I believe make for a more intuitive interface.

-rather than two assignable hands, Alucard has one designated "attack" button, and one designated "block." Attack (B) wields whatever weapon is equipped, and "block" (R) ducks and pulls out the equipped shield. Obviously, you are not allowed to equip a shield if you are using a two-handed weapon, so (R) will simply duck in such cases.

-Obviously, due to a lack of buttons and the higher complexity of a 3D control scheme, Alucard cannot slide on the ground. Appropriate map changes will be made to compensate.

-If the D-pad is not used as a camera control, the alternate is to turn it into a series of shortcut keys. LEFT transforms to bat, RIGHT transforms to wolf, and UP transforms to mist. DOWN is quick-potion; ie. automatically consume the largest (or smallest, undecided as of yet) healing item in your inventory. In this scenario, the X button would launch whatever sub-weapon you are carrying (axes, knives, etc.)

-If the D-pad is used for camera control, LEFT and RIGHT would rotate. UP would toggle zoom amount (which means two or three pre-set camera distances from player), and DOWN would activate a transformation (it can be set to BAT, WOLF, or MIST on the sub-menu).

...so that's that.

MENU: The menu would be very similar to that of the original SotN (although much less of an eyesore ). However, "USE" items (potions, mana, etc.) will be separated from WEAPONS, SHIELDS, BODY (armor, helmets, rings, etc.), and ITEMS (sellable gems, hint cards). Each of these will have its own section on the sub-menu, so the item list doesn't get as cluttery and so you don't have to unequip your weapon, equip meat, throw the meat on the ground, grab it, and re-equip your weapon (anybody else get extremely annoyed by that?)



Well, that's all I can think of. I'll post more on this project as it develops...and hopefully, I'll hear back from interested parties before too long.

[sappel]

I started to learn a little 3D studio max for a month, and I realy would like to help later, when I am more experienced with 3D modeling, there is only one problem: there is no one that has the skills to program a full 3D game for the DC, that guy that started his first 3D game for the DC didn't wan't to makepre-rendered backgrounds for fun. it's just to hard for most DCdevers to let a full 3D game run smooth.
Idon't wanna dissapoint anyone, but I think you first have to find a very good programmer.
good luck

[Lord_Ball]

[assuming full-3D environment]
-Analog stick: move Alucard
-D-pad: camera/transform
-A button: jump
-B button: weapon hand
-X button: sub-weapon
-Y button: backdash
-L trigger: map screen
-R trigger: block
-START button: sub-menu

[assuming fixed-perspective environment]
-Analog stick: move Alucard
-D-pad: "shortcut" keys
-A button: jump
-B button: weapon hand
-X button: sub-weapon
-Y button: backdash
-L trigger: map screen
-R trigger: block
-START button: sub-menu

I would hope that the controls could be configured to ones own tastes, because I would personally have X being the main attack button.

-Obviously, due to a lack of buttons and the higher complexity of a 3D control scheme, Alucard cannot slide on the ground. Appropriate map changes will be made to compensate.

You could always use L as a "Shift" key and put the map as an option in the sub menu.

[Storminator16]

This will probably be moved to 'Development Ideas', or whatever that forum is called.

I must say, this sounds very interesting. Plus, you laid out some of the framework of what you want to implement. I would love to see this happen, and I wish you luck in getting this off the ground.

Truly a great idea

<---------- Castlevania fan

[DaMadFiddler]

I started to learn a little 3D studio max for a month, and I realy would like to help later, when I am more experienced with 3D modeling, there is only one problem: there is no one that has the skills to program a full 3D game for the DC, that guy that started his first 3D game for the DC didn't wan't to makepre-rendered backgrounds for fun. it's just to hard for most DCdevers to let a full 3D game run smooth.
Idon't wanna dissapoint anyone, but I think you first have to find a very good programmer.
good luck

Hmm. Any help we can get with models would be greatly appreciated; haven't really worked out the exact details of how that would work yet, but one of the major setbacks to this project is just the sheer number of enemies in Symphony (we'll most likely have to pare the list down a bit). So many, many models will be needed regardless of whether or not the environments themselves end up being 3D.

[rbenchley]

How about using the Quake engine for your game? It's already been ported to the Dreamcast, and there was a mod for it via QuakeC that allowed you to implement a third person perspective (the Chase Cam). If you can hook up with someone who knows the Dreamcast and Quake (Ian Michael, perhaps?) you could possibly make modifications to Quake code to implement your 3D Castlevania. With a pre-existing engine to power the game, you can spend more time working on the creative elements (music, models, level design, etc.) and leave out some of the drudgery.

[devilbane]

GREAT concept! If the 3D were to be pulled off, I would definately contact someone who's name is already thrown out there above... even if you dont favor the Quake engine, Ian is one of the most talented and well known in the DC dev arena, and I am sure will have advice to help you get this off the ground.

Also, if you build it in a fixed perspective (Res Evil) you could pre-render most of the game map, freeing up DC power for finer things (Animation, enemy AI and such...)

But the Quake engine seems VERY feasable, and there are TONS of toolkits available for it...

[DaMadFiddler]

FIRST PUBLIC MATERIALS

As I said, I will be releasing a little of the preliminary work over the next week to help spark interest in the project. Most of my materials at the moment are internal notes or small items which will most likely not go out publicly (there's no point, really)...but a lot of the artwork, some of the music, and--once we get that far--character renderings will be made available as work progresses.

I've set up a temporarly HTML file to showcase the first three images for public consumption:

http://www.geocities.com/da_mad_fiddler/cv1.html

Look for a more formal project website in the not-too-distant future.

[DaMadFiddler]

Just a quick note regarding the title screen:

It *will* most likely change...I have no idea how dramatically.

Also, this early image shows the game title as "Castlevania: Nocturne of the Restless Dreamer." This also may very well change; it's a development name only. It's kind of a fourfold reference:

-the translated Japanese name of SotN was "Nocturne in the Moonlight"

-the "restless dreamer" is a reference to Alucard, who came out of a self-induced eternal slumber to face is evil father

-it seems very common to put "Dream" or some variant thereof in the title of a Dreamcast effort, as a nod to its system

[the fourth you'll have to figure out on your own ]

But as I said, that's just a working title. I don't even have a full production team yet; I'm sure somebody, somewhere along the line, will come up with something better .

Enjoy! Have a great weekend, everyone, and look for the first audio track next Monday or Tuesday.

[Mikey242]

Good luck to ya, so far I like what I see.

[rusty]

it's just to hard for most DCdevers to let a full 3D game run smooth.

All it takes a is a little bit of careful planning, and lots and lots of sugary drinks to keep the poor programmer going.

Oh...and a good grounding in the math involved helps too.


Writting a game in 3D is nowhere near as hard as you would think. Writting the actuall engine code is fairly straightforward. It's writting the tools and organising your data formats that is the pain in the patookas.

Oh...and keeping those pesky artists inline....that's another thing that's always going to be a problem

[sappel]

I also don't know how many vertexes models can have, and how big the textures can be.
It's pretty hard to create low poly models, but I will give it a try when I got enough info to start creating enemy's and maps, I will just wait on DaMadFiddlers sketches

[Merkoth]

well it's a very interesting project. i'd like to help with graphics if i can. if you decide to use quake's engine i could help making levels.

[Quzar]

make sure to opensource it and such =P using SDL and some quake engine is almost probably the best way to go, you might however look into trying to port some sort of better fitting SDL engine of sorts.

[sheng]

I've been working with 3d max for about 1 1/2 year now. I'm happy to help when I get time. Is that ok?

[Storminator16]

make sure to opensource it and such =P using SDL and some quake engine is almost probably the best way to go, you might however look into trying to port some sort of better fitting SDL engine of sorts.

1. Open source, closed source, it doesn't matter. Free, or for pay, it doesn't matter.

2. SDL for the Dreamcast is still a tad slow. Something has to be done about this :/

[Quzar]

2. SDL for the Dreamcast is still a tad slow. Something has to be done about this :/

and the alternatives are....

oh yay kos...pffft

Open source, closed source, it doesn't matter

it will matter if he wants to actually put together a team. without open source, that will be really hard to manage especially if it is a dynamic team.

[Storminator16]

2. SDL for the Dreamcast is still a tad slow. Something has to be done about this :/

and the alternatives are....

oh yay kos...pffft

I don't think you are exactly understanding what you are trying to point out.

Open source, closed source, it doesn't matter

it will matter if he wants to actually put together a team. without open source, that will be really hard to manage especially if it is a dynamic team.

Again, same as above. Maybe I need to read back to see if I'm missing something.