IDEA! Trade system in v1/v2

[Whithil XBR]

Well... the item trading system of PSOBB, can be somehow simulated with server commands in older versions of PSO

Let we supose it would work like this:

/trade <no arguments>
result: show a numbered list of players in the room...

ex.:
popup window:
___________________________________
1. Whithil XBR
2. Mr. Test
3. Test char
4. Mina
___________________________________

Then the player could type the command again, but this time with the number as argument:

"/trade 4"
then, if possible, a window asking the second player about the trade appears:
___________________________________
"Player A" is asking started a trade with you...
Accept?
___________________________________
YES
NO
___________________________________

then, a new window asks both players about what they wanna trade:
___________________________________
Meseta
Item
___________________________________

a new window would popup, with a list of the 30 inventory slots
or asking for the number of meseta, depending on the selected item in the example above...
___________________________________
ex.:
1. saber+35
2. monomate x 9
3. evil curst
4. Rudra
5. red ring
etc...
__________________________________
or..
__________________________________
00010450 MESETA
__________________________________

after selecting the Meseta/item by both players
the details of the item/meseta are sent, so then
a new window asks if the player accept...
__________________________________

and the trade is finished

ok, it's nonsense, I know...
and maybe a coding nightmare, or just impossible...

but I had to tell you this...

once more, thanks for reading my insanities

[BlueCrab]

That's actually an idea that I had before. The problem is, in order to do that, the server has to be able to track the inventory of the players. There are other nice features that would be able to be implemented as well with inventory tracking.

The problem is that it is, as you call it, a "coding nightmare". Its still something I would like to tackle sometime in the future, but I wouldn't expect it any time soon.

[K_I_R_E_E_K]

For me when i saw the legit comand code i also believe that was a coding nightmare, i envy you, it took me some time to understand the code partially.

The trading is a nice idea, but the concept itself is somehow powerfull, the same thing you did with the GM command can be used for all sorts of things, instead of

/command <argument>

you can just /command and then see in a menu all the possible arguments.

The /legit command checks items with a list (or part of the list) so in a way it can recognize each single item and compare them so i assume it's possible to retrieve the items information that can be traded. (correct me if i'm wrong)

[Whithil XBR]

The /legit command checks items with a list (or part of the list) so in a way it can recognize each single item and compare them so i assume it's possible to retrieve the items information that can be traded. (correct me if i'm wrong)

Mmmmm... I agree, kireek... let's wait for bluecrab and see what he'll tell us about it



But... I just had another idea, and I hope Aleron Ives read it...

Well, in a GSL file (i don't remember exactly what GSL file) is the data for pioneer 2 that I used to translate the NPC dialogs to portuguese, well... the structure of the file is vary similar to a PSO quest, so I used the quest editor "QEdit" to translate the NPC dialogs, and it worked fine... so it means the normal game is a quest after all, right?

well, if it's a quest... we could put more stuff in pioneer2... such as a NEW NPC in the check room
wich would be able to do the trade somehow, I think Ives can do it, because i heard about some custom quests created to give items, so why not edit the normal mode "pioneer2 quest" and put this NPC in the checkroom?

the edited GSL file would be in the Sylverant's patch server

and a Dreamcast improved ISO could be made...

ok, more insanities, I know...

[Aleron Ives]

It's also worth noting that the moment you start involving the server in people's inventories, you open the possibility for server bugs to start influencing your character. That is to say, the trade feature could start eating your items, just like random problems tend to cause things to disappear on BB.

This would make a nice complement to a common bank, though, whenever the time comes to work on it.

@ Whithil

You can't do that unless you force everyone to use the modifications. In other words, using GD-ROM copies of PSO would have to be prohibited, because client differences like that will cause people to FSOD if you play with each other. Obviously BlueCrab is never going to ban legitimate copies of PSO from connecting, so adding a common bank NPC isn't going to happen.

[Whithil XBR]

It's also worth noting that the moment you start involving the server in people's inventories, you open the possibility for server bugs to start influencing your character. That is to say, the trade feature could start eating your items, just like random problems tend to cause things to disappear on BB.

This would make a nice complement to a common bank, though, whenever the time comes to work on it.

well, Bugs will aways exist, but we can advice the users about them, and just try to fix...

@ Whithil

You can't do that unless you force everyone to use the modifications. In other words, using GD-ROM copies of PSO would have to be prohibited, because client differences like that will cause people to FSOD if you play with each other. Obviously BlueCrab is never going to ban legitimate copies of PSO from connecting, so adding a common bank NPC isn't going to happen.

oh, i think you're right... LoL... i forgot about the original discs, because I use an autoconnect copy ^^
well, But I still have my old disc here... but i'm too lazy to use codebreaker
well... let's forget about editing de GSL...

let's keep the focus in the server ^^

[BlueCrab]

For me when i saw the legit comand code i also believe that was a coding nightmare, i envy you, it took me some time to understand the code partially.

/legit is easy, compared to all the intricacies of tracking users' inventories.

The trading is a nice idea, but the concept itself is somehow powerfull, the same thing you did with the GM command can be used for all sorts of things, instead of

/command <argument>

you can just /command and then see in a menu all the possible arguments.

I certainly don't anticipate replacing all the full-text commands with menus. For one, they'd be exceedingly annoying to use while actually playing. It would make a potentially nice complement to the existing commands for sure. Its just that its somewhat boring to work on.

The /legit command checks items with a list (or part of the list) so in a way it can recognize each single item and compare them so i assume it's possible to retrieve the items information that can be traded. (correct me if i'm wrong)

Yes and no. There are some limitations to what /legit can do, none of which I will discuss publicly at the moment.

[Whithil XBR]

Ok, another one to Ives...

well, editing the GSL was just Stupid, I admit...

but what about making the same thing, but in an online quest?
I think there's no problem if it's a online quest...

well, it would in fact, be boring for most users, because they would need to enter in a quest to trade items...

but you must agree, it is better than nothing

[Aleron Ives]

There is no need to involve an NPC when the user can just type /trade or /bank and have a window appear on the screen to manage the transaction, which works regardless of whether the user is in a quest or not.

[K_I_R_E_E_K]

Even if there are bugs, players can always restore the char (if saved previously), pso bb on schthack was problematic because there was no way to do rollbacks, on v2 there are countless ways to restore lost items and one is by using the save features on the server

[BlueCrab]

Even if there are bugs, players can always restore the char (if saved previously), pso bb on schthack was problematic because there was no way to do rollbacks, on v2 there are countless ways to restore lost items and one is by using the save features on the server

The thing is, if the feature is unreliable enough to warrant needing to use /save before using it, its a fairly bad feature to start with. I won't even attempt such a thing until its actually safe to do it.

[Aleron Ives]

Hacking back your items just isn't the same, though. It's sometimes necessary, but it can be less satisfying.

Obviously a common bank and trade system wouldn't be released until they were thoroughly tested; I merely wanted to point out that it's a lot more difficult to add features like that than many of the others that have been added recently. It takes a lot less time to add something like doing a Guild Card search with a command than it does to make a common bank, so Whithil just needs to know that even once work begins on trying to do such things, it will probably take a while to make the feature ready for prime time.

Even then, it's still not guaranteed that everything will work perfectly. The main thing to take away is that things like /search are inherently safer, since there's little that could possibly go wrong aside from causing the player to get disconnected. Commands that deal with the player's inventory are far more likely to cause problems, since the inventory is part of the player's save data, and item information is relatively complicated. You should expect many rounds of bug and beta testing before BlueCrab added such commands to the main ships, which would take time.

[Nico0020]

It's also worth noting that the moment you start involving the server in people's inventories, you open the possibility for server bugs to start influencing your character. That is to say, the trade feature could start eating your items, just like random problems tend to cause things to disappear on BB.

This would make a nice complement to a common bank, though, whenever the time comes to work on it.

@ Whithil

You can't do that unless you force everyone to use the modifications. In other words, using GD-ROM copies of PSO would have to be prohibited, because client differences like that will cause people to FSOD if you play with each other. Obviously BlueCrab is never going to ban legitimate copies of PSO from connecting, so adding a common bank NPC isn't going to happen.

Interesting to see you posting here. When this section of the board got set up I was curious if you would end up here eventually. Site is pretty dead of course now adays, but nice to see your input in the PSO section.