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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 1:40 am 
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Cross-posted from the Dreamcast homebrew discussion forum:

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Just thought I'd give a quick Mac update, since the guides are now many, many years out of date:

1. THE GOOD: For the most part, the easiest way to burn games on a Mac appears to be using LiquidCD. The latest version of LiquidCD burns perfectly good, playable discs from DiscJuggler images (.CDI), with one notable exception: the "filled" images (ones packed with dummy data to "fill" the disc and thus push the data to the outer parts of the disc) don't work. But any Dreamcast .CDI image that is its natural size, and not in excess of 700MB, seems to burn just fine. No more CDI conversions for Mac users!

2. THE BAD: Pretty much every Mac-specific Dreamcast tool is now not only out of date, but non-functional. I was quite disappointed to load up Mac Dream Tool (for the first time in several years) just to get the following message:

Image

Back in the heyday of DC homebrew, Macs were PowerPC-based. They started switching to x86 in 2006, but maintained software compatibility through a wrapper built into the OS. However, that was removed in the move from Leopard to Snow Leopard, and now with Lion, support for PowerPC apps is long gone.

Cumulatively, what this means is: it is now just as easy for Mac users to burn pre-existing .cdi images as it is for Windows users. On the other hand, Mac users are completely screwed if they want to burn something that is *not* available in .cdi format, as all the old image building and conversion tools are not compatible with modern OSX.

I don't suppose there's any chance of an update to Mac Dream Tool...?


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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 8:23 am 
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That's stupid. Apple should have legacy support for PowerPC apps.

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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 10:33 am 
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They did, for two OS versions (totaling about 4-5 years). But they stripped that functionality out of Snow Leopard, as part of that version's "cleaning up the core" / "making things more efficient" initiative.


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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 2:20 pm 
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yes I know, but there should always be an option. I used a lot of PPC apps even after the migration to intel.

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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 6:21 pm 
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Ah, that sucks. :( So it stopped working in Leopard?

It was made with the 10.2.8 devkit, which was before Xcode. At the moment I don't have access to a Mac.. and i'm not sure which OS/devkit/mac I could use to get the best forward & backward compatibility. Although I am interested in keeping it at least running in the newest version, even if no additions are planned. Not sure of a timetable right now.

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MDT w/ Mac Intel support: Production temporarily halted.
MDT Services w/ Mac Intel support: Production temporarily halted.

Mac Dream Tool Version 3 & MDT Services 1.2
:arrow: http://dcemulation.org/?title=Mac_Tools

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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 7:37 pm 
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Snow Leopard was the cutoff.

Leopard was the last version with PPC support.

Snow Leopard was a "more efficient, improved" Leopard. One of the "more efficient" elements was dumping all PPC support, including the emulation layer for Intel machines.

Lion uses Snow Leopard as a base and incorporates a bunch of iOS features.


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 9:33 pm 
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Its not off-base of me to consider purchasing a mac capable of leopard (intel platform) for under a hundred and making this happen. Its worth the cost to me and I am interested in doing this.

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MDT w/ Mac Intel support: Production temporarily halted.
MDT Services w/ Mac Intel support: Production temporarily halted.

Mac Dream Tool Version 3 & MDT Services 1.2
:arrow: http://dcemulation.org/?title=Mac_Tools

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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 1:12 am 
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Is it possible for me to "Like" a forum post (such as on Facebook)? Because I'd Like this. I've got some thoughts and ideas to share with you, but it's late now so it'll have to wait until I get home from Maker Faire tomorrow.


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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 7:22 pm 
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DaMadFiddler wrote:
Snow Leopard was the cutoff.

Leopard was the last version with PPC support.

Snow Leopard was a "more efficient, improved" Leopard. One of the "more efficient" elements was dumping all PPC support, including the emulation layer for Intel machines.

Lion uses Snow Leopard as a base and incorporates a bunch of iOS features.


Snow Leopard supports PPC applications. Lion is the first OS not to run PPC applications. Snow Leopard was, however, the first version to not install on a PPC machine. It goes like this:

Tiger: Installs on PPC, Installs on Intel, Runs OS9 Applications, Runs PPC Applications
Leopard: Installs on PPC, Installs on Intel, Does Not Run OS9 Applications, Runs PPC Applications
Snow Leopard: Does Not Install on PPC, Installs on Intel, Does Not Run OS9 Applications, Runs PPC Applications
Lion: Does Not Install on PPC, Installs on Intel, Does Not Run OS9 Applications, Does Not Run PPC Applications

ace wrote:
yes I know, but there should always be an option. I used a lot of PPC apps even after the migration to intel.


The problem is that in order for Rosetta (the emulation layer) to work properly, the system requires PowerPC libraries and system files to be installed as well. That means that Apple must not only maintain an Intel version of their OS, but also maintain a PowerPC version, even though they haven't made PowerPC hardware for over half a decade. That's a lot of work, and everything has an Intel binary nowadays anyway. When Lion was released, the only notable piece of software that didn't have an Intel build was Quicken, and Intuit finally updated it now. When I upgraded to Lion the only thing that I had on my system that wouldn't run is the SheepShaver Emulator's Configuration GUI.

I.M. Weasel wrote:
It was made with the 10.2.8 devkit, which was before Xcode. At the moment I don't have access to a Mac.. and i'm not sure which OS/devkit/mac I could use to get the best forward & backward compatibility. Although I am interested in keeping it at least running in the newest version, even if no additions are planned. Not sure of a timetable right now.


If you don't mind giving me the source code, I could probably get it running, and I have a PowerBook G4, 32-bit MacBook, and MacBook Pro. I can test on Jaguar/PPC, Panther/PPC, Tiger/PPC-Intel, Leopard/PPC-Intel, Snow Leopard/Intel, and Lion/Intel. Modern Xcode probably won't let you build for anything earlier than Tiger, though.

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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 9:10 pm 
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|darc| wrote:
Modern Xcode probably won't let you build for anything earlier than Tiger, though.
Xcode 4 doesn't support anything older than Snow Leopard, IIRC.

That said, Xcode 3.2.x (which still runs on Lion, but probably doesn't install there) will let you build for 10.4, assuming you have the 10.4u SDK installed already (I don't think it came with the installer for Xcode 3.2.x, but I might be wrong).

You can always set the deployment target to an earlier version than the SDK you use, so it doesn't really matter as long as you can build for the architectures you care about. So, you'll probably need Xcode 3.2.x with at least the 10.5 SDK installed and you should be able to build for anything 10.3 and later by setting the deployment target to 10.3 (and by making sure that it builds a universal binary if you want ppc still, of course). That's what I do with CrabEmu anyway, which still supports 10.3. You should also use GCC 4.0 if you're building for anything earlier than 10.5, I think.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:02 am 
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Any chance of someone picking up the gauntlet on this? It's very sad not to have these tools.

I'm currently running Mountain Lion (albeit rather poorly... I suspect I need to bump my machine from 2GB RAM to 4GB), and I'd be happy to test.

As a side-note: I've been using LiquidCD to burn Dreamcast discs. Data/data discs work fine, but either LiquidCD doesn't burn Audio/data discs properly, or the DC I've got right now just won't read them. I don't have another Dreamcast to compare, and I don't have any known-good Audio/Data burns, so I'm not sure which is at fault.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:15 am 
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Which tools, specifically, do you need in Intel form?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:35 am 
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Mac Dream Tool is what the OP was about. I suspect that the other tools out there for OSX probably suffer from a similar problem, based on how long it's been since any new versions were released.

Both of our computers are on Mountain Lion. I honestly don't know how I'd go about trying to build my own DC disc images at this point.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:17 pm 
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Hi there guys,

Ive been an ass, it wouldve taken me all of 5 minutes to login and post whats going on. Had a busy fall so far, I hate and love old cars all at the same time. I still want to make this happen. I am looking to buy a used Mac right now (with intel chipset). I'll be getting one by the end of next week, so I think I can put it all together before the end of January. Happy Holidays!

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MDT w/ Mac Intel support: Production temporarily halted.
MDT Services w/ Mac Intel support: Production temporarily halted.

Mac Dream Tool Version 3 & MDT Services 1.2
:arrow: http://dcemulation.org/?title=Mac_Tools

"You don't have to be forgiven. Clint Eastwood taught us that."


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:19 am 
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That's great to hear! What OS are you targeting? If you're looking to run Lion or Mountain Lion, definitely make sure the system has (or at least can be upgraded to) 4GB or more of RAM. My 2008 MacBook Pro has 2GB, and definitely gets bogged down sometimes, even under light-ish use. (Well, it did. It recently fell victim to a faulty GPU and is awaiting a new logic board).


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:29 pm 
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I'm going to target whichever will be the most compatible with current architecture, that will hopefully stay so until a major change is made. Im going to the mac first then do research on which would be the best. Still at Step A, the perfect mini was pulled out from under me due to lack of instant funds.

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MDT w/ Mac Intel support: Production temporarily halted.
MDT Services w/ Mac Intel support: Production temporarily halted.

Mac Dream Tool Version 3 & MDT Services 1.2
:arrow: http://dcemulation.org/?title=Mac_Tools

"You don't have to be forgiven. Clint Eastwood taught us that."


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:58 pm 
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Dunno if this would be of interest to you or not, but my fiance has an older Mac that she's been meaning to sell. It's a 2007 black Macbook, 2GHz Core2 Duo with a 200GB hard drive and 1GB RAM. However, I'm planning to upgrade my MacBook Pro to 4GB, and put its 2GB in the MacBook before we sell it so that it can run Mountain Lion.

Working power cord, dead battery, some expected chips and scratches (though no dead pixels or functional problems), and we'd install the RAM upgrade and Mountain Lion before shipping it.

We were going to ask 275, but I think she'd let it go for around 200 if you want it.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:34 pm 
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Thanks for the offer, Fiddler, but I recently picked up a Mini Core Duo 1.66 yesterday. Now all I need is a DVI to VGA converter. I will begin working on it soon after I gather together all the needed components.

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MDT w/ Mac Intel support: Production temporarily halted.
MDT Services w/ Mac Intel support: Production temporarily halted.

Mac Dream Tool Version 3 & MDT Services 1.2
:arrow: http://dcemulation.org/?title=Mac_Tools

"You don't have to be forgiven. Clint Eastwood taught us that."


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:37 am 
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I.M. Weasel wrote:
Thanks for the offer, Fiddler, but I recently picked up a Mini Core Duo 1.66 yesterday. Now all I need is a DVI to VGA converter. I will begin working on it soon after I gather together all the needed components.


Well, congrats on the computer! The Mini is a fun little machine. It's a shame they stopped including optical drives; we were considering getting one as an HTPC for a while, due in part to its tiny footprint. I did use a G4 Mini as the heart of my custom jukebox project a few years back (the project that got me hooked on antique radios).

Just as a word of warning, though, I don't think a Core Duo machine will run Mountain Lion, because ML requires a 64-bit processor and the regular Core Duo is only 32-bit. (Intel Macs weren't 64-bit until the Core2 Duo).


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:25 pm 
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Its no problem, i'm not really interested in it. As long as Snow Leopard is stable, thats fine with me. I might even revert to Tiger after development. I also was able to find an old version of Xcode (3.1.2) that will run on Snow Leopard. As usual, Apple are Nazis with their old software.

Even though BCrab mentions 3.2.x, im hoping i'll have no problem building for 10.3/10.4 architecture. Of course i'll also recompile MDT Services. I can't recall but I think in my research i found that xcode 4.x wont run on snow leopard (or that you had to use a special version of 4.x to run on snow leopard).

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MDT w/ Mac Intel support: Production temporarily halted.
MDT Services w/ Mac Intel support: Production temporarily halted.

Mac Dream Tool Version 3 & MDT Services 1.2
:arrow: http://dcemulation.org/?title=Mac_Tools

"You don't have to be forgiven. Clint Eastwood taught us that."


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