DCEmulation

Cross-posted from the Dreamcast homebrew discussion forum:

That's stupid. Apple should have legacy support for PowerPC apps.

_________________

They did, for two OS versions (totaling about 4-5 years). But they stripped that functionality out of Snow Leopard, as part of that version's "cleaning up the core" / "making things more efficient" initiative.

yes I know, but there should always be an option. I used a lot of PPC apps even after the migration to intel.

_________________

Ah, that sucks. So it stopped working in Leopard?

It was made with the 10.2.8 devkit, which was before Xcode. At the moment I don't have access to a Mac.. and i'm not sure which OS/devkit/mac I could use to get the best forward & backward compatibility. Although I am interested in keeping it at least running in the newest version, even if no additions are planned. Not sure of a timetable right now.

_________________
Mac Dream Tool Version 3 & MDT Services 1.2
http://dcemulation.org/?title=Mac_Tools

"You don't have to be forgiven. Clint Eastwood taught us that."

Snow Leopard was the cutoff.

Leopard was the last version with PPC support.

Snow Leopard was a "more efficient, improved" Leopard. One of the "more efficient" elements was dumping all PPC support, including the emulation layer for Intel machines.

Lion uses Snow Leopard as a base and incorporates a bunch of iOS features.

Its not off-base of me to consider purchasing a mac capable of leopard (intel platform) for under a hundred and making this happen. Its worth the cost to me and I am interested in doing this.

_________________
Mac Dream Tool Version 3 & MDT Services 1.2
http://dcemulation.org/?title=Mac_Tools

"You don't have to be forgiven. Clint Eastwood taught us that."

Is it possible for me to "Like" a forum post (such as on Facebook)? Because I'd Like this. I've got some thoughts and ideas to share with you, but it's late now so it'll have to wait until I get home from Maker Faire tomorrow.

Snow Leopard supports PPC applications. Lion is the first OS not to run PPC applications. Snow Leopard was, however, the first version to not install on a PPC machine. It goes like this:

Tiger: Installs on PPC, Installs on Intel, Runs OS9 Applications, Runs PPC Applications
Leopard: Installs on PPC, Installs on Intel, Does Not Run OS9 Applications, Runs PPC Applications
Snow Leopard: Does Not Install on PPC, Installs on Intel, Does Not Run OS9 Applications, Runs PPC Applications
Lion: Does Not Install on PPC, Installs on Intel, Does Not Run OS9 Applications, Does Not Run PPC Applications



The problem is that in order for Rosetta (the emulation layer) to work properly, the system requires PowerPC libraries and system files to be installed as well. That means that Apple must not only maintain an Intel version of their OS, but also maintain a PowerPC version, even though they haven't made PowerPC hardware for over half a decade. That's a lot of work, and everything has an Intel binary nowadays anyway. When Lion was released, the only notable piece of software that didn't have an Intel build was Quicken, and Intuit finally updated it now. When I upgraded to Lion the only thing that I had on my system that wouldn't run is the SheepShaver Emulator's Configuration GUI.



If you don't mind giving me the source code, I could probably get it running, and I have a PowerBook G4, 32-bit MacBook, and MacBook Pro. I can test on Jaguar/PPC, Panther/PPC, Tiger/PPC-Intel, Leopard/PPC-Intel, Snow Leopard/Intel, and Lion/Intel. Modern Xcode probably won't let you build for anything earlier than Tiger, though.

_________________
It's thinking...

Xcode 4 doesn't support anything older than Snow Leopard, IIRC.

That said, Xcode 3.2.x (which still runs on Lion, but probably doesn't install there) will let you build for 10.4, assuming you have the 10.4u SDK installed already (I don't think it came with the installer for Xcode 3.2.x, but I might be wrong).

You can always set the deployment target to an earlier version than the SDK you use, so it doesn't really matter as long as you can build for the architectures you care about. So, you'll probably need Xcode 3.2.x with at least the 10.5 SDK installed and you should be able to build for anything 10.3 and later by setting the deployment target to 10.3 (and by making sure that it builds a universal binary if you want ppc still, of course). That's what I do with CrabEmu anyway, which still supports 10.3. You should also use GCC 4.0 if you're building for anything earlier than 10.5, I think.

Any chance of someone picking up the gauntlet on this? It's very sad not to have these tools.

I'm currently running Mountain Lion (albeit rather poorly... I suspect I need to bump my machine from 2GB RAM to 4GB), and I'd be happy to test.

As a side-note: I've been using LiquidCD to burn Dreamcast discs. Data/data discs work fine, but either LiquidCD doesn't burn Audio/data discs properly, or the DC I've got right now just won't read them. I don't have another Dreamcast to compare, and I don't have any known-good Audio/Data burns, so I'm not sure which is at fault.

Which tools, specifically, do you need in Intel form?

_________________
It's thinking...

Mac Dream Tool is what the OP was about. I suspect that the other tools out there for OSX probably suffer from a similar problem, based on how long it's been since any new versions were released.

Both of our computers are on Mountain Lion. I honestly don't know how I'd go about trying to build my own DC disc images at this point.

Hi there guys,

Ive been an ass, it wouldve taken me all of 5 minutes to login and post whats going on. Had a busy fall so far, I hate and love old cars all at the same time. I still want to make this happen. I am looking to buy a used Mac right now (with intel chipset). I'll be getting one by the end of next week, so I think I can put it all together before the end of January. Happy Holidays!

_________________
Mac Dream Tool Version 3 & MDT Services 1.2
http://dcemulation.org/?title=Mac_Tools

"You don't have to be forgiven. Clint Eastwood taught us that."

That's great to hear! What OS are you targeting? If you're looking to run Lion or Mountain Lion, definitely make sure the system has (or at least can be upgraded to) 4GB or more of RAM. My 2008 MacBook Pro has 2GB, and definitely gets bogged down sometimes, even under light-ish use. (Well, it did. It recently fell victim to a faulty GPU and is awaiting a new logic board).

I'm going to target whichever will be the most compatible with current architecture, that will hopefully stay so until a major change is made. Im going to the mac first then do research on which would be the best. Still at Step A, the perfect mini was pulled out from under me due to lack of instant funds.

_________________
Mac Dream Tool Version 3 & MDT Services 1.2
http://dcemulation.org/?title=Mac_Tools

"You don't have to be forgiven. Clint Eastwood taught us that."

Dunno if this would be of interest to you or not, but my fiance has an older Mac that she's been meaning to sell. It's a 2007 black Macbook, 2GHz Core2 Duo with a 200GB hard drive and 1GB RAM. However, I'm planning to upgrade my MacBook Pro to 4GB, and put its 2GB in the MacBook before we sell it so that it can run Mountain Lion.

Working power cord, dead battery, some expected chips and scratches (though no dead pixels or functional problems), and we'd install the RAM upgrade and Mountain Lion before shipping it.

We were going to ask 275, but I think she'd let it go for around 200 if you want it.

Thanks for the offer, Fiddler, but I recently picked up a Mini Core Duo 1.66 yesterday. Now all I need is a DVI to VGA converter. I will begin working on it soon after I gather together all the needed components.

_________________
Mac Dream Tool Version 3 & MDT Services 1.2
http://dcemulation.org/?title=Mac_Tools

"You don't have to be forgiven. Clint Eastwood taught us that."

Well, congrats on the computer! The Mini is a fun little machine. It's a shame they stopped including optical drives; we were considering getting one as an HTPC for a while, due in part to its tiny footprint. I did use a G4 Mini as the heart of my custom jukebox project a few years back (the project that got me hooked on antique radios).

Just as a word of warning, though, I don't think a Core Duo machine will run Mountain Lion, because ML requires a 64-bit processor and the regular Core Duo is only 32-bit. (Intel Macs weren't 64-bit until the Core2 Duo).

Its no problem, i'm not really interested in it. As long as Snow Leopard is stable, thats fine with me. I might even revert to Tiger after development. I also was able to find an old version of Xcode (3.1.2) that will run on Snow Leopard. As usual, Apple are Nazis with their old software.

Even though BCrab mentions 3.2.x, im hoping i'll have no problem building for 10.3/10.4 architecture. Of course i'll also recompile MDT Services. I can't recall but I think in my research i found that xcode 4.x wont run on snow leopard (or that you had to use a special version of 4.x to run on snow leopard).

_________________
Mac Dream Tool Version 3 & MDT Services 1.2
http://dcemulation.org/?title=Mac_Tools

"You don't have to be forgiven. Clint Eastwood taught us that."