DC VS PS2

Discussion of topics related to licensed games, software hacking/modification, prototypes, and development kits belongs here. Includes topics related to emulating the Dreamcast console on your computer or on another gaming console. Discussion of Reicast should go in the Official Reicast Forum.
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Post by -Johnick- »

MetaFox wrote:
-Johnick- wrote:
If one full motion video demo of Metal Gear Solid 2 has convinced you that the PS2 is the better machine, then you haven't opened your eyes to the reality before you
And when MGS2 came out and the assclown who wrote this saw it was real in game footage and not FMV, it killed his article, going down faster then a blonde on prom night.
The teaser trailer of Metal Gear Solid 2 shown at E3, that the article is referring to, was not powered by the Playstation 2 in real time. It was all pre-rendered video.

Most of the footage that was in the trailer did make it into the game - so it was "real in game footage", as you so eloquently put it - however it was mostly pre-rendered cutscenes.
If by that you mean it was a video of the game running on a Ps2 or Ps2 dev kit, rather then a real Ps2 that was there, then your right, but does it really matter ?.Put whatever spin you want on it, the point is any scenes that where shown in that trailer that were in the final game were identical (and in some cases better). The guy who wrote that article posted it on DCWarez message board about how the Ps2 couldnt possibley pull off something that good looking. Take the Final Fantasy games on the Psx, in any of the adverts for those games all they show is the FMV's from the game, and no in game footage because they want you to believe that the game really looks that good. That was what the guy was getting at, but then the demo that came free with ZOE came out and flushed his article down the toilet.

Comparing the DC and the Ps2 is like comparing the Spectrum 48k to the Commodore 64, both machines could do certain things better then the other, but over all the c64 was the more powerful machine. The same goes for the Ps2.

I disagree with your argument about Piracy being the biggest factor in the DC's demise, and how it was worse then the Psx because you didnt need a modchip. Once swap carts came out everybody had them, and nobody bothered with mod chips. Then Sony removed the exapansion bay, but then along came the Psxchange disc. Its not rocket science sticking a spring under the eject tray of your Psx, or putting a sticker over the latch of your eject tray on your Psone. So in comparison you have the Utopia Boot disc, which is free, and then you have the Psxchange which does the same thing but costs 10 bucks cause it needs to be a factory pressed disc. I dunno about you but im willing to bet your average pirate isnt going to mind making a one time investment like that, hell I even knew people who sold copies of the Utopia boot disc to people who didnt have CD burners or who had burners that couldnt burn it (remember, back then not everybody could burn Mil-CD format discs).

If Piracy killed the DC then what killed the Saturn ? (modding a Saturn was easier then modding a Psx before swap carts/discs came along), or the Mega-CD/Sega-CD ? (nobody had CD burners back then), or the 32x ?. The truth is whilst Piracy certainly didnt help, it wasnt the only reason, nor was it even the main reason the DC failed. The DC failed because

1. It came off the back of 3 others failures (with the exception of the Saturns success in Japan).
2. Sega where in bad financial shape as it was
3. They didnt market the machine properly (in all the years Ive owned a DC ive only seen one advert on TV for a DC game, im also the only person I know in real life who owns a DC)
4. 'Playstation' was already a household name, something Sega hadnt been since the Megadrive/Genesis, and even then they were in a 50/50 tug of war with Nintendo. Like it or not, the Playstation was to the late 90's what the NES was to the late 80's.
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Post by Quzar »

What Metafox was getting at is they used FMV to show the power of the PS2, which means nothing, while saying they were ingame graphics.
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Post by -Johnick- »

Quzar wrote:What Metafox was getting at is they used FMV to show the power of the PS2, which means nothing, while saying they were ingame graphics.
But in MGS2's case they were, there are certain camera shots in that trailer that arent possible in the game because tey wanted to highlight certain area's, but its still graphicly identical to the final game (some parts actually look better in the final game). The guy who wrote the article thought it was a collection of cut scenes done on some super computer that looked miles better then the in game graphics (ala Final Fantasy), but any idiot can see that whilst it looked amazing the graphics were still jagged enough to know the footage was taken from the game running in real time.

I have the making of MGS2 DVD, i can rip and post a high quality version of the original E3 trailer from 2000 if your memory needs refreshing.
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Post by Quzar »

Good argument, anyone who doesn't see things your way must be an idiot.

I've never seen it, I was only clarifying what metafox was saying.
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Post by MetaFox »

Never mind. I don't know what I'm talking about.

"Besides, Kojima has never shown off pre-rendered footage in a trailer - in fact, to the best of our knowledge, he's simply never used pre-rendered footage in that way at all."

I appologize.
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Post by Ex-Cyber »

I really don't buy the idea that the CD-R hole killed Dreamcast. Xbox was softmoddable and managed to survive, and Dreamcast did pretty well for a while in the software department for a "dead" system. Also, maybe it's just my imagination, but it seems like DC copying only really exploded after DC had already been discontinued. My pet theory is pretty simple, but I don't hear it much: I think people in the industry just saw a 4-way fight looming and developed a somewhat reasoned but ultimately self-fulfilling expectation that DC would be the first to go when the gloves came off.
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Post by Quzar »

Ex-Cyber wrote:I really don't buy the idea that the CD-R hole killed Dreamcast. Xbox was softmoddable and managed to survive, and Dreamcast did pretty well for a while in the software department for a "dead" system. Also, maybe it's just my imagination, but it seems like DC copying only really exploded after DC had already been discontinued. My pet theory is pretty simple, but I don't hear it much: I think people in the industry just saw a 4-way fight looming and developed a somewhat reasoned but ultimately self-fulfilling expectation that DC would be the first to go when the gloves came off.
I agree with you 100%. I had a few friends with Dreamcasts that were all rather computer savvy and not anti-piracy or anything and they didn't really start warezing until way after the DC's death.
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Post by NOWKA »

I hate these types of topics. I love the dreamcast, and currently it and the Genesis are the only consoles I play, but to compare it to the ps2 isn't right. We really do not know what the dc is capable of, and guessing doesn't help. Who knows what konani, square, or capcom (if they put their minds to it) could have done with the dc? Who knows what continued support or additional generations of software could have done to show off the dreamcast's graphical capablities.

Also another thing that never gets mentioned with the first generation of dreamcast games is that no matter games were made, those games were considered to have good graphics. Heck I remember seeing that Virtua Fighter 3tb got 8 out of 10 for graphics from gamespot, the same score they gave to ikaruga on dc. Of course, gamespot isn't a reliable source for anything, but think, the first generation did not have to try to look 'good'. Anything they kicked out the door looked 'good', and that first generation was basically it for the dreamcast. Soul Calibur looked amazing, even though Namco didn't worry too much about pushing a decent polygon count or completely modeling backgrounds.

The dreamcast was easier to program games for, but not really easy to get a very good performance out of. Dreamcast needed efficient code in order to make games look good.

Piracy wasn't the cause of the dc's death, but it definitely put a nail in the coffin. Sega had many problems before the dc died and piracy helped finish it off. Piracy was a finishing blow.
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Post by Morphv2 »

All i can say, is that all of you whom believed the PS2 hype, Sega Dreamcast died for your sins. :cry:
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Post by shimiannightstalker »

DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST DREAMCAST is the best ever!!!!

PS2 I'D I'D |/|
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Post by 1mp0r7g4m3r »

NOWKA wrote: Who knows what konani, square, or capcom (if they put their minds to it) could have done with the dc?
all of konami's games on the dreamcast were pisspoor with the possible exception on pawapuro yakyuu and silent scope (if you stretch).

Capcom? SF, project justice, power stone, power stone 2, re:cv, cvs, cvs2, mvc, mvc2, tech romancer, jojos bizarre adventure, RE:2, RE:3, cannon spike, vampire chronicles, spawn, gunbird 2, dino crisis, heavy metal geomatrix, etc. yes most are fighting games and some suck/are ports, but capcom in no way skimped out on 'putting their minds to' the dc
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Post by cube_b3 »

also the RE remake initally started on dc (or so I have heard)
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Post by NOWKA »

Capcom? SF, project justice, power stone, power stone 2, re:cv, cvs, cvs2, mvc, mvc2, tech romancer, jojos bizarre adventure, RE:2, RE:3, cannon spike, vampire chronicles, spawn, gunbird 2, dino crisis, heavy metal geomatrix, etc. yes most are fighting games and some suck/are ports, but capcom in no way skimped out on 'putting their minds to' the dc
True, but most of these are as you said are ports. How many of those were original?

What I was trying to say is that most of the big name dev teams did not really try on the dreamcast. They mainly ported old games, instead of making original software that used the dc's hardware properly.

And come to think of it, didn't most of the original games they made for the dreamcast come early in the console's life?
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Post by Quzar »

Then again they were NAOMI ports, which basically means they are identical to their arcade counterparts...
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Post by Matisfaction »

1mp0r7g4m3r wrote:all of konami's games on the dreamcast were pisspoor with the possible exception on pawapuro yakyuu and silent scope (if you stretch).
Yeah, No WE for DC either :x
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Post by 1mp0r7g4m3r »

DC Originals

(x) = exclusive to DC

Cannon Spike (X)
RE:CV
Project Justice (X)
Marvel vs Capcom
MvC2
Capcom vs SNK
CvS Pro
Capcom vs SNK2
Gunbird 2 (X)
Gigawing (X)
Gigawing 2 (X)
Heavy Metal Geomatrix (X)
Tech Romancer (X)
JoJo's Bizarre Adventure
Spawn: In the Demon's Hand (X)
Make Metal Slug DC!
Visit the Dreamcast NMMT Board!
http://nmmt.proboards58.com/index.cgi
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