Any good free backup software?

[melancholy]

I have been using the automatic backup software in Vista for a couple of months now, and it was a good thing too because tonight I needed it. However, in the process of restoring my backup, I learned a harsh truth; Vista doesn't backup applications. Period. I didn't notice it before, but apparently it even says it in the menu that it is impossible to program it to backup applications, which to me seems infinitely stupid. And beyond that, I have always been bothered by the fact that Vista also will not backup my external hard drive, which houses my iTunes collection and would kinda suck to lose.

So I need new backup software. Something preferably free that I can set to make automatic backups weekly without me messing with it. If it can do compressed backups, that would be awesome too. And since it will probably be running in the background, something that isn't too much of a resource hog. And of course, something that will actually backup the entire hard drive, and not just selective things like Vista seems to do.

[Roofus]

Write a batch file and schedule a task.

[Ex-Cyber]

I have been using the automatic backup software in Vista for a couple of months now, and it was a good thing too because tonight I needed it. However, in the process of restoring my backup, I learned a harsh truth; Vista doesn't backup applications. Period. I didn't notice it before, but apparently it even says it in the menu that it is impossible to program it to backup applications, which to me seems infinitely stupid.

That's not just an arbitrary limitation. Windows really has no meaningful notion of "installation"; you just run an installer program, and it does some stuff. Then if you want to uninstall you run the matching uninstaller program, and hope that it correctly undoes all the stuff that the installer did. The Add/Remove Programs dialog is basically a big illusion provided by registry keys and a lot of clever hacks.

[melancholy]

I have been using the automatic backup software in Vista for a couple of months now, and it was a good thing too because tonight I needed it. However, in the process of restoring my backup, I learned a harsh truth; Vista doesn't backup applications. Period. I didn't notice it before, but apparently it even says it in the menu that it is impossible to program it to backup applications, which to me seems infinitely stupid.

That's not just an arbitrary limitation. Windows really has no meaningful notion of "installation"; you just run an installer program, and it does some stuff. Then if you want to uninstall you run the matching uninstaller program, and hope that it correctly undoes all the stuff that the installer did. The Add/Remove Programs dialog is basically a big illusion provided by registry keys and a lot of clever hacks.

That's great...for programs I install. But many, many of the applications I want it to back up aren't installable programs (like emulators, my entire Steam folder, Director .exe files I created for class projects and my portfolio, installers for software that was discontinued and I like to keep around in case I need to reinstall those programs...). The fact that it ignores anything that ends in .exe means I'm going to lose a ton of stuff that doesn't apply to the 'installed programs' category.

Write a batch file and schedule a task.

I have no idea what that means. I mean, I know what a batch file is, and I know how to schedule a task, but I don't know what exactly I'm suppose to put in that batch file. Not to mention a batch file would probably blindly back up the entire drive, which would kill my computer for about an hour every week, unless the batch file could be made to only backup files that are new or have a more recent modify date than the file it's trying to overwrite.

[Roofus]

Write a batch file and schedule a task.

I have no idea what that means. I mean, I know what a batch file is, and I know how to schedule a task, but I don't know what exactly I'm suppose to put in that batch file. Not to mention a batch file would probably blindly back up the entire drive, which would kill my computer for about an hour every week, unless the batch file could be made to only backup files that are new or have a more recent modify date than the file it's trying to overwrite.

NTFS has a handy attribute called the "Archive Bit." It doesn't mean much to users (unlike the Read-only or Hidden bit) but it's basically a flag for backup programs that means the file hasn't been backed up. If the bit is off, the program passes over the file.

Windows comes with a handy program called xcopy that supports the Archive bit via the /m switch. Your batch file might look something like this:

Code: Select all

@echo off
xcopy /s /e /m /c /y /v /h /q  "C:\Documents and Settings\melancholy\My Documents\*.*" d:\Backups
shutdown -f -s -t 60

/s /e replicates the directory structure (/s copies directories with files in them, /e grabs the empty ones.)
/m only copies files with that Archive bit set and then turns it off. (Note that altering a file later turns it back on. Clever.)
/c continues even if an error occurs. Xcopy normally quits on an error.
/y overwrites files without prompting.
/v verifies that the file got copied correctly (slow, but might be useful if you're running this at 3 AM)
/h copies hidden and system files (Admittedly, you probably don't want/need this one)
/q runs xcopy silently

The rest is just source and destination.

"shutdown -f -s -t 60" just shuts down your computer.

You can add more xcopy lines depending on where your files are. For example:

Code: Select all

xcopy /s /e /m /c /y /v /h /q  "C:\emulators\*.*" d:\Backups
xcopy /s /e /m /c /y /v /h /q  "C:\steam\*.*" d:\Backups
xcopy /s /e /m /c /y /v /h /q  "C:\pr0n\*.*" d:\Backups

Of course, you'll want to modify the source and destinations, but this should get you started.

[Ex-Cyber]

it ignores anything that ends in .exe

Okay, that is pretty arbitrary.

[melancholy]

Write a batch file and schedule a task.

I have no idea what that means. I mean, I know what a batch file is, and I know how to schedule a task, but I don't know what exactly I'm suppose to put in that batch file. Not to mention a batch file would probably blindly back up the entire drive, which would kill my computer for about an hour every week, unless the batch file could be made to only backup files that are new or have a more recent modify date than the file it's trying to overwrite.

NTFS has a handy attribute called the "Archive Bit." It doesn't mean much to users (unlike the Read-only or Hidden bit) but it's basically a flag for backup programs that means the file hasn't been backed up. If the bit is off, the program passes over the file.

Windows comes with a handy program called xcopy that supports the Archive bit via the /m switch. Your batch file might look something like this:

Code: Select all

@echo off
xcopy /s /e /m /c /y /v /h /q  "C:\Documents and Settings\melancholy\My Documents\*.*" d:\Backups
shutdown -f -s -t 60

/s /e replicates the directory structure (/s copies directories with files in them, /e grabs the empty ones.)
/m only copies files with that Archive bit set and then turns it off. (Note that altering a file later turns it back on. Clever.)
/c continues even if an error occurs. Xcopy normally quits on an error.
/y overwrites files without prompting.
/v verifies that the file got copied correctly (slow, but might be useful if you're running this at 3 AM)
/h copies hidden and system files (Admittedly, you probably don't want/need this one)
/q runs xcopy silently

The rest is just source and destination.

"shutdown -f -s -t 60" just shuts down your computer.

You can add more xcopy lines depending on where your files are. For example:

Code: Select all

xcopy /s /e /m /c /y /v /h /q  "C:\emulators\*.*" d:\Backups
xcopy /s /e /m /c /y /v /h /q  "C:\steam\*.*" d:\Backups
xcopy /s /e /m /c /y /v /h /q  "C:\pr0n\*.*" d:\Backups

Of course, you'll want to modify the source and destinations, but this should get you started.

Okay, so a batch file will be more useful than I thought. So, on my computer I would need to make backups of the entire E drive, the entire G drive (my extermal drive), and everything in the C drive, minus the 'Windows' folder. Everything would go in my Z drive, which is the backup drive, into directories for each drive (so my E drive would be placed in a folder called 'E'). Would my code, therefore, look something like this?

Code: Select all

xcopy /s /e /m /c /y /v /h /q "E:\*.*" Z:\E
xcopy /s /e /m /c /y /v /h /q "G:\*.*" Z:\G
xcopy /s /e /m /c /y /v /h /q "C:\Documents and Settings\*.*" Z:\C\Documents and Settings
xcopy /s /e /m /c /y /v /h /q "C:\Program Files\*.*" Z:\C\Program Files

I don't want the shutdown command since I intend on this program running while I'm doing other things on the computer. And I want to keep hidden files and folders because programs like Firefox like to hide extensions, favorites, and other useful things in hidden folders that would be good to backup. The only thing about the code I typed out that I'm not sure about is the last two settings. Based on my limited knowledge of DOS, I think the 'Documents and Settings' and 'Program Files' bits would probably mess up the code, but I'm not sure if that's different nowadays or not. If so, what do I put instead?

And one other thing I've always wondered, because I see this all the time. Just what exactly does "@echo off" do? Do I need it in the batch?

[Christuserloeser]

@ - doesn't output the current line to screen
echo off - prevents the following lines from being displayed on screen


Btw, I didn't know about the archive bit in NTFS - Thanks Rufus!

[Roofus]

Okay, so a batch file will be more useful than I thought. So, on my computer I would need to make backups of the entire E drive, the entire G drive (my extermal drive), and everything in the C drive, minus the 'Windows' folder. Everything would go in my Z drive, which is the backup drive, into directories for each drive (so my E drive would be placed in a folder called 'E'). Would my code, therefore, look something like this?

Code: Select all

xcopy /s /e /m /c /y /v /h /q "E:\*.*" Z:\E
xcopy /s /e /m /c /y /v /h /q "G:\*.*" Z:\G
xcopy /s /e /m /c /y /v /h /q "C:\Documents and Settings\*.*" Z:\C\Documents and Settings
xcopy /s /e /m /c /y /v /h /q "C:\Program Files\*.*" Z:\C\Program Files

I don't want the shutdown command since I intend on this program running while I'm doing other things on the computer. And I want to keep hidden files and folders because programs like Firefox like to hide extensions, favorites, and other useful things in hidden folders that would be good to backup. The only thing about the code I typed out that I'm not sure about is the last two settings. Based on my limited knowledge of DOS, I think the 'Documents and Settings' and 'Program Files' bits would probably mess up the code, but I'm not sure if that's different nowadays or not. If so, what do I put instead?

And one other thing I've always wondered, because I see this all the time. Just what exactly does "@echo off" do? Do I need it in the batch?

That should work. One thing I forgot to mention is that you'll want to make sure that the Archive bit is on before you get started, or you might not back up everything. You can do that with the "attrib" command:

Code: Select all

attrib /s +a e:\*.*
attrib /s +a g:\*.*
attrib /s +a c:\*.*

You can just drop those into the Run box. You might get some errors, but they're (as far as I could tell when I tested it) on files you don't want to copy anyway.

[melancholy]

Cool, so far this little batch program is working out very nicely. I went ahead and removed the /m command for my very first backup to be sure I got everything, and once it's complete I'll re-add the /m command and schedule it from there.

Now, here's a new question. Say six months from now I have deleted a few items, moved some stuff around, and so forth. My backup drive is getting pretty full and I want to clean out some of the duplicate or old items. Is there a batch command that I could run once every couple of months that would compare the contents of the original drive (let's say the E drive) with the contents of the backup drive (the E folder in my backup drive) and delete anything that no longer existed on the original drive?

[Roofus]

Cool, so far this little batch program is working out very nicely. I went ahead and removed the /m command for my very first backup to be sure I got everything, and once it's complete I'll re-add the /m command and schedule it from there.

Now, here's a new question. Say six months from now I have deleted a few items, moved some stuff around, and so forth. My backup drive is getting pretty full and I want to clean out some of the duplicate or old items. Is there a batch command that I could run once every couple of months that would compare the contents of the original drive (let's say the E drive) with the contents of the backup drive (the E folder in my backup drive) and delete anything that no longer existed on the original drive?

That's a good question. I think you'd need a different utility. Unfortunately, I don't know what it would be. Only workaround I can think of would be to delete everything from the E folder and redo the copy.

[BlackAura]

If this were a Mac or Linux machine, I'd suggest rsync. It's mostly designed for networks, so most of it's features wouldn't be useful to you anyway. It does run on Windows, but it's ridiculously slow compared to running it on Linux (10 minutes to start copying, vs 30 seconds).

It looks like robocopy (newer version of xcopy - included with Vista) might do the trick. It has a purge option, but all the command-line options are completely different. I think something like this should work:

Code: Select all

ROBOCOPY E:\ Z:\E /COPY:DATSO /MIR /XJ
ROBOCOPY G:\ Z:\G /COPY:DATSO /MIR /XJ
ROBOCOPY "C:\Documents and Settings" "Z:\C\Documents and Settings" /COPY:DATSO /MIR /XJ
ROBOCOPY "C:\Program Files" "Z:\C\Program Files" /COPY:DATSO /MIR /XJ

That makes a mirror of each directory (which deletes files not in the source directory), copies the Data, Attributes, Timestamps, Ownership, and Security attributes for all files, and excludes junctions (which would cause an infinite loop on Vista if you tried to copy your profile directory).

Robocopy doesn't use the archive attribute. It works out when files have been modified by comparing their last modified time and size, which usually works fine. I don't know if it's possible to make it use the archive attribute, but I can't see any way to do so.

I don't know if you'd actually be able to restore a backup of the Program Files or Documents and Settings directory using this. Certainly if you tried restoring a backup over the top of a new installation of Vista, things would break horribly, assuming it'd allow you to do it at all.

[melancholy]

If this were a Mac or Linux machine, I'd suggest rsync. It's mostly designed for networks, so most of it's features wouldn't be useful to you anyway. It does run on Windows, but it's ridiculously slow compared to running it on Linux (10 minutes to start copying, vs 30 seconds).

It looks like robocopy (newer version of xcopy - included with Vista) might do the trick. It has a purge option, but all the command-line options are completely different. I think something like this should work:

Code: Select all

ROBOCOPY E:\ Z:\E /COPY:DATSO /MIR /XJ
ROBOCOPY G:\ Z:\G /COPY:DATSO /MIR /XJ
ROBOCOPY "C:\Documents and Settings" "Z:\C\Documents and Settings" /COPY:DATSO /MIR /XJ
ROBOCOPY "C:\Program Files" "Z:\C\Program Files" /COPY:DATSO /MIR /XJ

That makes a mirror of each directory (which deletes files not in the source directory), copies the Data, Attributes, Timestamps, Ownership, and Security attributes for all files, and excludes junctions (which would cause an infinite loop on Vista if you tried to copy your profile directory).

Robocopy doesn't use the archive attribute. It works out when files have been modified by comparing their last modified time and size, which usually works fine. I don't know if it's possible to make it use the archive attribute, but I can't see any way to do so.

Interesting, I'll try this out and see if it works more effectively. We'll see what happens.

I don't know if you'd actually be able to restore a backup of the Program Files or Documents and Settings directory using this. Certainly if you tried restoring a backup over the top of a new installation of Vista, things would break horribly, assuming it'd allow you to do it at all.

Oh no, that's not my intention at all. There are just a bunch of programs I have that keep various settings, save files, themes, and other such items in different folders. I could just make backups of the specific setting files I would like to keep but I would have to redo the batch file with every new program I install. I'm too lazy to do that, so instead I just backup everything and I'll weed it out when I need it later.

[not just souLLy now]

That bat file stuff is really useful, nice one Roofus

[Lluz]

M$ has a free tool called syncToy. Its pretty easy to use and all GUI based.

The robo copy and windows scripting option would be the best route, but it doesn't sound like you will be really archiving and log rolling data around.

[melancholy]

Bumping this topic because I currently hate my life.

Last night I decided I wanted to move around some of my partitions so I would have more space on my backup drive since it was pretty full. I moved all my backup files from drive 2 back to drive 1 so I could format drive 2 and claim the extra 80GB that XP was formerly taking up. I format the drive, restart the computer and suddenly get hit with a system error. Apparently in that short 30 second restart, my first hard drive up and decided to completely die. Upon consulting Seagate, they agreed and gave me an RMA number.

I am so incredibly pissed and amazed right now that I can hardly think of how I could possibly vent my anger. I mean, what are the fucking odds that my computer has been working fine for 5 months with a backup, and then die within the 5 minutes of creating a new one?

[Zealous zerotype]

On the harddrive you moved stuff from that still works use filescavenger. Somebody recomended it to me and it works great.

[melancholy]

I'll give it a shot. Not all is lost with this crash, fortunately, since I had the foresight to rely on more than just one measly backup for the extremely important stuff. My entire school and work project history is in four locations. This crash cost me two of those backups, but the other two still exist. I also installed Vista on a different hard drive, did all of my installs of programs that require activations, and then cloned the drive onto my old drive and tucked that away. So that means that while I will still have to call Microsoft to reactivate Vista, I was up and running again with a simple hard drive switch and can deactivate my iTunes and Adobe installations.

So really, all that was lost with this crash that was of importance was my emulation folder (freakin' again! And I was just on the haunted house level of Banjo-Kazooie! GAH!!!), my PSP backup files (so I'm not sure if I can de-Pandora my battery now), my PDF porfolio (I still have the images, but the PSD files are gone, meaning I have another week of work cut out for me to rebuild the damn thing), and my work newsletter folder (same as the portfolio, InDesign files are gone)

[melancholy]

YES! My emulation folder and portfolio folder are still recoverable! Awesome!