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 Post subject: TDKR Spoiers Discussion
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:25 am 
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I saw the Dark Knight Rise
I did not See my Wallet Fall
I feel deep grief and loss
the root i'm not sure off

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So yes, right before I went to see the movie I lost my wallet which had my recently cashed pay cheque, SID, SSN, and Credit Cards.
I reported everything got the cards cancelled and all.

But anyway went into the movie very emotional.

At the end of it I felt really sad and incomplete. I could be missing the wallet behind my ass or could be the movie.

If it is the movie:
Why so Sad?
Cause Talia died and betrayed Bruce.
If I was Bruce Wayne I would go for Talia after Rachel, Catwoman's a whore with or without the mask - I just can't see myself doing anything more than flirting with her.
Just my opinion, so I wanted CatWoman to backstab Wayne not Talia.

Also I agree with the critics on the over crowding issue too many characters.

Also I can not imagine Bruce Wayne leaving Batman (maybe cause I grow up on DCAU) let alone Gotham.
So watching him die is sad.
Watching him abandon Gotham is worse.

I did not buy in to the unnecessary Joseph Blake especially since the previous 2 movies featured a little boy who was linked as Gordon's son in the dark knight, and we all thought he was going to be Robin in the 9 year span the movie takes place he would have still been 21 at best.

I can not confidently say the movie is bad, I can not say it is good.
I am constantly comparing it to Spider-Man 3.

But these are early opinions from somebody really emotional and probably displacing my loss on to the movie.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 1:31 pm 
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It's a great movie, probably the best one I've watched at the theaters this year.

Also, both CatWoman and Talia betrayed Batman at different points in the movie.

The lack of any mention of the Joker was a bit disturbing though, specially since the Two-Face story is retold several times in the movie. This may have been done out of respect for Heath Ledger, but it still felt kind of weird to notice the character he played disappear completely as if he had never existed.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:11 am 
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It was nice to get a positive ending for once. I know it sounds naive, but it was cool that everything ended well for the characters.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:53 pm 
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While I don't think it was bad, I do think it was the weakest of the three. It seemed to highlight all the little problems that were more easily ignored in the other two films.

1. It's paced very unevenly.

2. There are lots of little plotholes. For example: in the beginning, Bruce has to resort to a sort of mini-robotic brace for his leg to compensate for his damaged knees. But later on when he's recovering from a broken back (and I'm not even going to get into the details of that), once he's "recovered" he can somehow do crazy acrobatics all on his own again. Apparently the cartilage in his knee magically regrew? Also, that nuclear scientist had to have known damn well that Bane was going to kill him anyway... and since supposedly nobody else could do it, why would he agree to arm the bomb? And how did Catwoman immediately know how to pull off crazy tricks in a brand-new type of vehicle that she'd never seen--much less driven--before?

3. Bane was kind of wasted. Bane had the potential to be a really interesting villain, but they completely undermined his history as a strategically-minded, charismatic revolutionary by just having him be a second-in-command who serves as a public figurehead.

4. The "world" of the movie felt very artificial. This film didn't do near as good a job as the previous one of giving the impression of a living, breathing city. And when they panned out for a moment to give a half-assed explanation of why the armed forces couldn't intervene, everything outside of Gotham just felt like cardboard cutouts, writing-wise. Like the rest of the world only exists as background scenery, and even then only because they have to acknowledge that there IS an outside world or people wouldn't buy it. (And seriously--"America's greatest city"? What President would ever say that about one specific place? And wasn't it less than a decade ago that Gotham was a crime-ridden hellhole?)

5. I know they probably felt weird about doing anything with the Joker due to Ledger's death, but to not have ANY mention of him at all, especially when they keep calling back to every single other character from the past two films? Felt weird. They couldn't even have had a line or a news report or something in the background explaining away the Joker's absence?

6. So... nobody at all makes the connection that Bane's forces are driving around in brown Batmobiles. Sure. Then again, since they really only ever show the police, the Wayne executives, and Bane's forces, maybe "normal people" just don't really exist in this movie. Everyone's either part of the poor and desperate, or a plot-important character. There is apparently no middle class citizenry.

7. For a film series that seems to have gone out of its way to be a "different" sort of superhero flick, there were *lots* of cliches. Also, crying Alfred was obnoxious. And I'm still not sure how I feel about the ending--on the one hand, it's one of the few cases where he DIDN'T take what seemed most likely/logical, and allowed the characters to be happy. On the other hand, it probably would have worked better without the ridiculous Alfred scene earlier in the film.

Overall, I'd give it a C+. It was fun, but quite a bit of a letdown. I knew it wasn't going to be as good as Dark Knight (which I really do think is Nolan's magnum opus--not only a cut above his other films, but also the ONLY superhero movie that is legitimately a "great film" without any qualifiers), but I wasn't expecting it to be more uneven and unbelievable than Batman Begins.

Here's my overall rating of the Batman films, in order from best to worst. I've left off Batman Forever and Batman & Robin, because fuck those movies.

The Dark Knight
Batman
Batman Begins
Dark Knight Rises
Batman Returns


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 5:27 pm 
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Big props, Fiddler. Pretty spot on. Many of your arguments were those I hadn't found the ability to articulate myself.

The entire sequence of the prison, Riserisriseriseriseriseriserise, and the occupation of Gotham. What was that, an hour? However long, I was bored. While I was bored, I was surprised that I was bored--the entire time. The saving grace was the ending. I can't level with you on Michael Caine's tears, as it was a bit powerful for me, but the entire ending was perfect. The film wasn't, but the ending was perfect; and I don't think it could have possibly been a single fucking inch better.

Overall, what was missing was a villain. That's the gaping hole in the film, the lack of a real ideological conflict (which is what made The Dark Knight the timeless classic that it is). Thankfully, Catwoman was there to keep the ship from sinking the entire time.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:03 am 
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Oh, one thing I forgot to mention: the class conflict.

It seems like Nolan injected cursory mentions and vague lip service to the idea that there is a class struggle, without ever developing that idea. It's like he wanted to say "See how topical and astute I am? I'm bringing up the issue of class warfare!" But then he doesn't ever get deeper into the idea, or make any kind of point with it. Like an "awareness campaign," he seems to want points just for acknowledging its existence without having to do any actual work or committing to a specific stance.

This is actually a problem I have with Nolan in general. I like his films, but I think he gets too much credit for being an "intelligent" filmmaker. The big problem is that he comes up with an intriguing idea (for example: nested dreams, and the ability to infiltrate and manipulate those dreams). But then, rather than expanding on that idea, he's content to remain at the surface level (i.e. only using the nested dreams idea as the starting point for an otherwise by-the-numbers heist movie). The result is a neat idea that is never fully realized, and the frustration of all that wasted potential.

That's how I felt about Dark Knight Rises.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:25 am 
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DaMadFiddler wrote:
But then, rather than expanding on that idea, he's content to remain at the surface level (i.e. only using the nested dreams idea as the starting point for an otherwise by-the-numbers heist movie)

Surface level my ass, they went all the way to limbo! :P

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:00 pm 
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DaMadFiddler wrote:
While I don't think it was bad, I do think it was the weakest of the three.

I place it in second, because I could never get over the "Batman is a ninja! That's so cool!" idea that they used in the first one. I never followed the comics, so I don't know if this also happens in them, but I don't think Batman needs ninja hype to be as cool as he is.

DaMadFiddler wrote:
2. There are lots of little plotholes. For example: in the beginning, Bruce has to resort to a sort of mini-robotic brace for his leg to compensate for his damaged knees. But later on when he's recovering from a broken back (and I'm not even going to get into the details of that), once he's "recovered" he can somehow do crazy acrobatics all on his own again. Apparently the cartilage in his knee magically regrew?

The only explanation, for me, is that Bane only broke some of Batman's vertebrae, not his spine. I remember the prison doctor mentioning that one of Bruce's vertebrae was sticking out, but I don't remember him saying that his spine was broken.

But this would only explain it partially, and the thing about his cartilage was a really awful plot hole.

DaMadFiddler wrote:
3. Bane was kind of wasted. Bane had the potential to be a really interesting villain, but they completely undermined his history as a strategically-minded, charismatic revolutionary by just having him be a second-in-command who serves as a public figurehead.

I don't think he was second in command. It seemed to me that Bane and Talia shared the top of their hierarchy, and that both had the same ideals. The only thing I'm not entirely sure about is whether they were lovers or just friends, because in the end she calls him a "friend".

DaMadFiddler wrote:
crying Alfred was obnoxious.

Yes. And in the end, that was just an excuse in the plot to have Alfred out of Gothan when Bane's takeover took place.

DaMadFiddler wrote:
the class conflict.

It seems like Nolan injected cursory mentions and vague lip service to the idea that there is a class struggle, without ever developing that idea. It's like he wanted to say "See how topical and astute I am? I'm bringing up the issue of class warfare!" But then he doesn't ever get deeper into the idea, or make any kind of point with it. Like an "awareness campaign," he seems to want points just for acknowledging its existence without having to do any actual work or committing to a specific stance.

I strongly agree. This was a huge plot hole, and even though filling it wouldn't have made much (if any) difference to the rest of the plot, filling it would have substantially improved the quality of the movie.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 3:25 pm 
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Here's a good read: 15 Things That Bothered Us About ‘The Dark Knight Rises’.

Quote:
Blake Intuits That Bruce Wayne is Batman - WTF, dude? First of all, I’m highly skeptical that anyone could “see” just by looking at Bruce Wayne’s face that he was Batman. But even if this were not-at-all implausible, the fact that this development occurs in the first act of the film is a strong indicator of this film’s issues (namely, the need to cram in as much plot development as possible). In any other film, such a reveal would normally come after the end of some sort of prolonged interaction between these two characters, where it might be somewhat understandable that one character saw the truth in the other. Here, they get it out of the way right from the beginning in a fashion so abrupt that it has no emotional resonance whatsoever.

Also, if Blake was able to put this together, wouldn’t other Gothamites have started to put two and two together? As a separate issue, by the end of the film, practically all the main characters already know that Bruce Wayne is Batman. By the time Commissioner Gordon figures it out while Batman is taking off, I didn’t think “Wow, what a revelatory moment!” Rather, I thought, “Oh man, he is so late to the party on this one.”

Quote:
Bruce Wayne Forgets to Do Proper Background Checks – You would think that after Ra’s al Ghul and members of the League of Shadows crashed Wayne’s birthday party and burnt down the Wayne mansion that a stricter security policy would have been implemented for Wayne Manor events. First he hires a maid who’s actually a notorious cat burglar, then he hires a woman to head his board who’s actually the daughter of one of the most villainous individuals out there. Shouldn’t he have done a little more digging before surrounding himself with these individuals?

Quote:
Are the Gotham City Police Department and CIA Really THAT Dumb? – Why would they send every member of the Gotham City Police Department, including the SWAT Team, into the sewers? Seems like a stupid move that wouldn’t be made by any reputable agency of law enforcement. But to make matters worse, in The Dark Knight Rises, the GCPD aren’t the only stupid government agency. In the opening prologue, the CIA agent allows hooded thugs on board a CIA plane without even finding out who the men are. Then, minutes later, the CIA airplane is unable to detect the huge non-stealth plane flying towards them.

By the way, I didn't understand why they did a blood transfusion during that sequence.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:36 am 
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Quote:
By the way, I didn't understand why they did a blood transfusion during that sequence.


So that they could spray the blood on the corpse of the henchmen left in the plain, to convince the world that the nuclear physicist is dead.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:29 pm 
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I don't feel like writing so I'm just going to go ahead and say: the movie is a mess.


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