Legal Question

[Repoman23]

Im just curious:

How come it is illegal to according to a lot of people here to play a burned version of a neocd game?

While at the same time, everyone seems to be "legally" running around with all these genesis emulators, snes emulators and single game arcade emulators.

How the heck are those legal and neogeocd burns not?

Yea yea, im sure every single game you are playing on the genesis and snes roms you legally own.... my ass.

And the arcade roms im sure you own every arcade....



Heck, im not justifying anything illegal or burning games. I simply think burning neogeocd games shouldnt be a legal issue. The system has been gone for who knows how many years and you can't reasonably purchase any of the games anymore, let alone a system (- ebay).

By burning a neogeocd game at this stage, who is getting hurt?

[mikozero]

imo an unfeasibly large number of people claim to have original NeoCD discs...

[MetaFox]

You'll also notice that when an original does not play the way that it was intended in a Neo Geo CD emulator, discussion of transferring the original to ISO is allowed.

However, discussion of how to actually go about transferring that CD to an ISO is not.

The same is true with ROM images.

DCEmulation doesn't allow discussion on how to rip the roms from cartridge, and it doesn't allow discussion on how to rip and burn the ISOs.

DCEmulation also locks any and all topics which have links to commercial ROMs, as well as ISOs.

The only way that you can play a cartridge based game is by means of a ROM image, so the rules have to be a little more lenient to allow discussion of commercial games in ROM based emulators.

This is the same leniency that is in place for the Neo Geo CDs. The Neo Geo CD uses a different file system than the Dreamcast, so the Dreamcast sometimes has difficulty reading data off of an original CD. When this is the case, the rules are more lenient in order to allow people who own the original game to play their legitimate copy in NeoDC or Neo4All.

Discussion of how to burn an ISO for use with NeoCD or Neo4All would be permitted if a user wanted to know how to burn a public domain Neo Geo CD game, such as Charles Doty's Neo Geo CD Demo.

[Cormega]

I can understand what you are saying regarding the neo geo system being long gone. However, take into the fact that capcom vs. snk is on the cd system and it still is relatively new (circa-2001). This means it's probably still producing profit for the latest owners giving either playmore or mega. So it will still be awile before it will be legal to download any images or roms from Neo-Geo. Same story for nintendo, as they have been porting some of their classics to the gba as you already know. But overall it still sucks so I feel your pain

[bender]

It's illegal for you to burn roms/isos of games you don't legally own, no matter how old are them.
It's legal to speak about burning roms/isos if you are not providing them or links to illegal resources
There's allways people who buys things and PD software also exists

[Syd]

DCEmulation doesn't allow discussion on how to rip the roms from cartridge, and it doesn't allow discussion on how to rip and burn the ISOs.

Ripping roms from cartridges is of course 100% legal if you own the original, as is ripping an ISO for the same reason. Ripping a Neogeocd game and burning it is probably quite legal if you own the original game. At the same time, however, I can see why DCemulation doesn't allow discussion of these things, since they inevitably lead to the asking of where to find ROMS, ISO images, etc. Perhaps a mod could add to the FAQ the question "How do I rip a rom from a cartridge?" and point them to a site such as tototek.com (for most cartridges). Just a thought.

[TyBO]

It's more than just whether or not SNK is making money off of these games right now. The games are still copyrighted material. If SNK really wanted to, they could re-release the NeoGeo CD console with all the games for it, but if everyone already owned the games in ISO form or whatever, no one would buy the games in the store, and thats not fair to SNK.

[Quzar]

Capcom vs SNK isn't on the CD system.

[Sweater Fish]

Neither is SNK vs Capcom.


...word is bondage...

[Sweater Fish]

The system has been gone for who knows how many years and you can't reasonably purchase any of the games anymore, let alone a system (- ebay).

Why do you discount eBay? It's a great place to get Neo CD games. But even aside from eBay, you can quite reasonably get Neo Geo CD games from a variety of sellers or directly from other people. Virtually every game for the system is readily available. Maybe you're referring to the fact that you can't get the games at EB or Gamestop or whatever the hell. If so, that's a pretty lame argument.

Do you know how many years the system has "been gone"?


...word is bondage...

[curt_grymala]

Ripping roms from cartridges is of course 100% legal if you own the original, as is ripping an ISO for the same reason.

Not true, but I'll just leave it at that, as we've had this discussion over and over and over again.

[Smurph]

Ripping roms from cartridges is of course 100% legal if you own the original, as is ripping an ISO for the same reason.

Not true, but I'll just leave it at that, as we've had this discussion over and over and over again.

Last I checked, in the USA, it was.

[Sir Savant]

EDITED SO I DONT SOUND LIKE A DUMBASS.

Isn't it allowed in Taiwan and Canada, though?

[Sweater Fish]

Ripping roms from cartridges is of course 100% legal if you own the original, as is ripping an ISO for the same reason.

Not true, but I'll just leave it at that, as we've had this discussion over and over and over again.

Last I checked, in the USA, it was.

What did you check? The Digital Millenium Copyright Law seems to pretty well rule it out. If you got taken to court over it, your lawyer might be able to make some sort of case around Fair Use Law, but it'd be iffy since Fair Use is iffy. Ultimately the only way to know for sure in advance is to find an applicable precedent and it doesn't seem like there is one, which is an interesting point in itself. No one has ever been taken to court for doing it.


...word is bondage...

[Phantom]

Currently the DMCA does not apply to obsolete systems though. (Copyright law still applies ofcourse.)

[Tr?]

yes and no... Here is the US law on copyright for computer programs:


Title 17: Chapter 1: ? 117 states that:

(a) Making of Additional Copy or Adaptation by Owner of Copy.? Notwithstanding the provisions of section 106, it is not an infringement for the owner of a copy of a computer program to make or authorize the making of another copy or adaptation of that computer program provided:
(1) that such a new copy or adaptation is created as an essential step in the utilization of the computer program in conjunction with a machine and that it is used in no other manner, or
(2) that such new copy or adaptation is for archival purposes only and that all archival copies are destroyed in the event that continued possession of the computer program should cease to be rightful.

The key part here is:


it is not an infringement for the owner of a copy of a computer program to make or authorize the making of another copy

Just because you own the game, doesn't mean you are the owner of the copyrighted material. Yes, you own the game, but not the rights.

Info from:

Code: Select all

http://straylight.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode17/usc_sec_17_00000117----000-.html

anyway, no matter how you look at it, you must get permission from whoever holds the copyright for the game, in order to make a legal copy of it.
Therefore, if you want to get technical... there should be no help in reguards to burning or ripping of an original game, as you are yourself helping someone break the law.
I enjoy this site a lot and don't want to cause any problems... but how can a site say that it is illegal to talk about this and that... but it is ok to talk about this... even though it is still illegal?
As far as the DMCA(Digital Millennium Copyright Act), that is basically used for copyright infringement over the internet. Such as transferring an ISO from my computer to yours.

****EDIT****
But as far as emulators themselves, they are perfectly legal as long as the code is not stolen or ripped form another source. It just depends on how you use the emulator that decides if you are using the emulator legally!

[xenon]

Not true, but I'll just leave it at that, as we've had this discussion over and over and over again.

In Spain is legal, as you have the right of make a personal security backup if you own the original.

[abydos1000]

Most modern EULAs for modern console games specifically prohibit you from making a copy even if it is for your own use. Once you open that plastic, you have entered a contract to use that license under their terms.

[BlackAura]

Once you open that plastic, you have entered a contract to use that license under their terms.

That'd never stand up. For one, said "contract" is usually on the label of the disc in very small (almost illegible) letters, or on one of the inside covers of the manual. Either way, that's inside the box, so you couldn't possibly have read it. Second, you can not implicitly agree to a contract. Third, EULAs are not contracts. They are agreements under which you are permitted to use a copy of (whatever it is), as long as you abide by certain rules.

EULAs are actually supposed to grant rights to the end user, and can not restrict what you're allowed to do under appropriate copyright law (such as fair use). Regardless of what a game's EULA might say, you are still allowed to make fair use of the material. That's the whole point of the fair use clause.