Does a dual analog Dreamcast controller exist?

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DoomDan II
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Does a dual analog Dreamcast controller exist?

Post by DoomDan II » Mon Feb 29, 2016 10:43 pm

Does a dual analog Dreamcast controller made by some 3rd party company exist? I've seen a youtube video where somebody modded a 3rd party Dreamcast controller to have a 2nd analog that used the face button inputs and then removed the face buttons, leaving only Z, C, Start and the triggers. But I was hoping I could find one that was actually made in a factory.

If they don't exist, I guess I'll just get a DC keyboard and mouse. I mainly want this type of controller for FPS games obviously.
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Re: Does a dual analog Dreamcast controller exist?

Post by RXShorty » Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:08 pm

As far as I known there aren't any. :)
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Re: Does a dual analog Dreamcast controller exist?

Post by DoomDan II » Sat Mar 05, 2016 2:21 am

Yeah I kind've found that out quickly with Google, bummer :cry:

Sorry for this useless topic
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Re: Does a dual analog Dreamcast controller exist?

Post by |darc| » Tue Mar 08, 2016 7:08 pm

The Dreamcast hardware does support it, but I don't know of one that was created, unless you count the Japanese Dreamcast Twin Stick that was released for Virtual-On: Oratorio Tangram, but it isn't supported by any FPS games anyway.
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Re: Does a dual analog Dreamcast controller exist?

Post by PH3NOM » Tue Mar 08, 2016 11:05 pm

There is an adapter that lets you use playstation controllers on DC.
I can confirm that the Logitech Wireless Dual Shock PS/2 works on DC using such an adapter :-)

But as |darc| mentioned, there are no (FPS) games (currently) that would support the 2nd analog stick.
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Re: Does a dual analog Dreamcast controller exist?

Post by cube_b3 » Sun Mar 20, 2016 2:07 pm

Hypothetically if we had a dual shock controller. Could a quick 5 block Vmu patch make the game compatible or will we require more of a proper game hack and burn?
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Re: Does a dual analog Dreamcast controller exist?

Post by |darc| » Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:07 pm

How would you patch a game via the VMU? O_o
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Re: Does a dual analog Dreamcast controller exist?

Post by DaMadFiddler » Wed Apr 13, 2016 11:11 am

I seem to recall reading that Bleem! was planning a branded DualShock adapter that would have supported both analog sticks, but it didn't make it past the prototype stage before the company was shut down.

As |darc| mentioned, the Dreamcast supports a more feature-rich controller (presumably intended as a mid-cycle upgrade to keep pace with the competition, but there aren't any known games that actually support the hardware, even if it did exist.
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Re: Does a dual analog Dreamcast controller exist?

Post by |darc| » Mon Apr 18, 2016 3:44 pm

DaMadFiddler wrote:I seem to recall reading that Bleem! was planning a branded DualShock adapter that would have supported both analog sticks, but it didn't make it past the prototype stage before the company was shut down.
They did and it was working. Some of the prototypes hit eBay a few years ago.
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Re: Does a dual analog Dreamcast controller exist?

Post by cube_b3 » Tue Apr 19, 2016 12:41 am

I believe it was called the Bleem pod.
I remember the actual auction.
I even remember the colorful mockups for the pod that were on their website back in the day.
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Re: Does a dual analog Dreamcast controller exist?

Post by Nico0020 » Fri May 13, 2016 9:09 am

That's right, the prototypes did hit ebay. I am guessing they went to a collector, but those did support full controls. Its a shame too, I wish they had gone to someone who would open them up and share info about them for history's sake....

Would even games, such a Quake 3 that have fully customizable controls still not recognize input from a controller which has 2 sticks? It really is a shame, I love my DC and still play it to this day, but as time moves on I dislike the controller more and more. It was a product of it's time, but hell PS1 had its dualshock already at that point, and all Gen 6 consoles save for DC had 2 sticks.

With all of these companies cashing in on the retro buzz, I wish someone had designed a good DC controller replacement. I know there are PS controller converters, but I have never liked that controller to this day.
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Re: Does a dual analog Dreamcast controller exist?

Post by |darc| » Sun May 15, 2016 8:13 pm

The original PS controller was a natural evolution of the SNES controller, but I have always abhorred the Dual Shock. It was a big deal to get twin sticks on a mainstream controller, but I have always hated the low positioning on the sticks, as if they were just tacked on to an existing controller (well, they were).

I agree though, the DC controller is getting a bit aged now. FPS titles are terrible on the DC controller, but luckily the DC has a keyboard and mouse. But despite how non-exciting the DC controller is to us now, there was a lot of innovation, esp. for peripherals.

As a side question: was the DC the only console to properly natively support kb/mouse input for FPS games? I would buy a modern console if they supported kb/mice, but afaik they don't.
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Re: Does a dual analog Dreamcast controller exist?

Post by pcwzrd13 » Mon May 16, 2016 8:41 am

Someone could actually make a dual analog stick Dreamcast controller by having the second stick emulate the mouse (think the FragFX but in reverse). I guess you could also have a switch to change the emulation from the mouse to the face buttons or triggers as well but you could get almost true analog control by emulating the mouse. It would work with any game that supports looking around using one of those methods. You could also make a controller converter in the same way that supports dual analog stick controllers from other systems. It shouldn't bee too difficult. I wish I had the skills to do it myself.
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Re: Does a dual analog Dreamcast controller exist?

Post by Quzar » Tue May 17, 2016 1:23 am

A more effective way than what the youtube hardware hacker did would be to attach a second analog stick to the two triggers. The inputs work identically, and would provide true dual analog sticks. It would also be possible to map them if games have a rich enough remapping feature.
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Re: Does a dual analog Dreamcast controller exist?

Post by |darc| » Tue May 17, 2016 8:18 pm

Quzar wrote:A more effective way than what the youtube hardware hacker did would be to attach a second analog stick to the two triggers. The inputs work identically, and would provide true dual analog sticks. It would also be possible to map them if games have a rich enough remapping feature.
Losing trigger functionality would suck though, because if you have no triggers, then with thumbs on dual sticks how will you perform any actions? I haven't seen the video you're referencing, though, so I may be misunderstanding the nature of this mod.
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Re: Does a dual analog Dreamcast controller exist?

Post by Quzar » Thu May 26, 2016 7:31 pm

|darc| wrote:
Quzar wrote:A more effective way than what the youtube hardware hacker did would be to attach a second analog stick to the two triggers. The inputs work identically, and would provide true dual analog sticks. It would also be possible to map them if games have a rich enough remapping feature.
Losing trigger functionality would suck though, because if you have no triggers, then with thumbs on dual sticks how will you perform any actions? I haven't seen the video you're referencing, though, so I may be misunderstanding the nature of this mod.
Digital triggers with C/Z then? :P I'm not referencing a video, just the description given in the first post.
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Re: Does a dual analog Dreamcast controller exist?

Post by LordGolem » Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:28 am

An Xbox controller is about as close as we got to a dual analog Dreamcast controller. If an adapter could be made and games were patched for it, an Original Xbox S controller would be perfect for the job.
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Re: Does a dual analog Dreamcast controller exist?

Post by Chilly Willy » Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:38 am

The Maple controller spec does include two analogue sticks, and two digital sticks. Look at the definition of the controller packet:

Code: Select all

/* Raw controller condition structure */
typedef struct {
    uint16 buttons;         /* buttons bitfield */
    uint8 rtrig;            /* right trigger */
    uint8 ltrig;            /* left trigger */
    uint8 joyx;         /* joystick X */
    uint8 joyy;         /* joystick Y */
    uint8 joy2x;            /* second joystick X */
    uint8 joy2y;            /* second joystick Y */
} cont_cond_t;
where buttons are:

Code: Select all

#define CONT_C          (1<<0)
#define CONT_B          (1<<1)
#define CONT_A          (1<<2)
#define CONT_START      (1<<3)
#define CONT_DPAD_UP        (1<<4)
#define CONT_DPAD_DOWN      (1<<5)
#define CONT_DPAD_LEFT      (1<<6)
#define CONT_DPAD_RIGHT     (1<<7)
#define CONT_Z          (1<<8)
#define CONT_Y          (1<<9)
#define CONT_X          (1<<10)
#define CONT_D          (1<<11)
#define CONT_DPAD2_UP       (1<<12)
#define CONT_DPAD2_DOWN     (1<<13)
#define CONT_DPAD2_LEFT     (1<<14)
#define CONT_DPAD2_RIGHT    (1<<15)
So a DC controller COULD have six regular buttons instead of four (I've got some MadCatz six button controllers), two digital sticks (the twin stick controller uses that), a second "menu" button (D to go along with START), two shoulder triggers (funny that this is one area they didn't expand on), and two analogue sticks. So an adapter for Sony or MS controllers could make both analogue sticks available. Of course, you'd only be able to use the second one with homebrew that supported it. I don't see anyone realistically patching games to use dual analogue sticks.
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Re: Does a dual analog Dreamcast controller exist?

Post by GyroVorbis » Mon May 01, 2017 4:55 pm

Oh, dude. If you had the hardware it would literally be a joke to support two analogs. The Dreamcast maracas are proof, and I have used them plenty through KOS. The left analog is the position of the left maraca and the right is the position of the right maraca. So maple protocol supports it, software supports it... so yeah, all it needs is a controller mod or like a converter for a dual shock or something and it's already good to go. No software work required.
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Re: Does a dual analog Dreamcast controller exist?

Post by law56ker » Mon May 01, 2017 9:17 pm

The prototype bleemcast controller was dual analog.

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-7I2uaSfEESM/ ... amcast.jpg
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